Post by Iamdbat » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:03 am

As a person who has spent inumerable hours and effort on opencart just to get a viable shop out there I have to say that open cart - promises to reach and fails all the time ...from poor policing of third party modules to bare minimum and poor understanding of modern commerce requirements. I mean to say that I understand the model that OC uses to generate revenue .... that's a given but times have changed dramatically .... the base product needs to deliver MORE! ... It needs to be absolutely robust from the outset so even the most novice of novices can set up a viable store in a matter of weeks (not months to years!) - The administrators need to recognize the weakness of their game plan and deliver on what the product advertises - at present it completely doesn't. Moreover - The argument that this product is free is smoke in a bottle - it isn't so stop advertising it as such! - In order to get a viable working that can sell opencart solution out there COSTS and it costs more than money too - If money was the only issue you could throw a heap at it to boot but more importantly Opencart is 1 step forward 2 steps back! - I would DEFY ANYBODY on this forum to argue that last remark and then present their own experience. Fact is people who program really haven't the first clue about retail .... simple as... and have no real world tangeiable experience of such to boot ( of course that's a generalization so don't be a keyboard jockey). So - Point of fact is this .... Give Us a stable solution to work from ..... not a new skin on 1.56 please ... more real world tools ... modules that are truly plug in without the need to go to college for four years just to make them work - and implement a real world quality control on third party input .... Laughably ANYBODY can advertise themselves as a programmer on the forums offering services - take money and not deliver - it has happened to me and I have NO DOUBT I'm the only one. ANYBODY can offer a silly module for money that JUST DOESN'T WORK!!!!

So whats my answer - whats the solution? what am I saying that's so much better etc etc.? - well .... I got into OC just because I wanted a platform to vend the products that I'm involved in - like everybody I didn't realize what I got myself into before I started. A few years on I feel I have earned myself variable opinion.

I believe OC can be great
I think the developers feel under pressure like they are missing out on the great payout or something
I believe they have taken their eye off the true prize
I believe that OC is an underdeveloped concept
I believe that revenue for the developer/s needs to be remastered

I would say to Daniel and partners .... look at Apples model .... make third party go through YOUR quality control that YOU stand over or else it doesn't make the cut.
Make the base product truly architectural whereby any clone of OC can be 'fitted' out according to the desired result or shop model required
Realize that OC is for the guy on the street with no knowledge of anything other than I have a something to sell and a VERY SMALL BUDGET to get started
ANY default template should be absolutely flawless and trouble free

I could keep going and so could loads of others etc .......... point is a change of attitude from the developers is required if the model of OC looks attractive enough once more

Sorry if you feel ..uggggghhhhh after this but a rant a day keeps ......mmm me awake ... how about you?
Last edited by rph on Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Split off topic discussion to its own thread

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Post by virgotch » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:08 pm

you are very right in all what you wrote here, we dont need new template from 1.5 we need real store to work on it , but if you want to talk your good experiences this forum is good place for it . but if you want to talk about bad ways from oc , be carefull they can block you or delete from forum :) oc team dont like people talk own ideas , they dont like people share isues , they dont like people ask to make some new futures , they make oc only how they want and what they see themself , you can read in many blogs how daniel talk with other developers when they offer something

las time when i share isue or idea about the admin order page in github long time ago his word was to me also from daniel

"" one more stupid isue from you , if you will make more i will block you "" :)

my offer was to make in admin order page , when need to edit/update ordered products price or quantity in customer order . in which cart you see that admin must delete product and add back to customer order for edit ?

and in oc extension list i see admin order edit module cost over +100$ :)

i belive that oc can be very good store but before to be developer , need to learn to listen others and listen ideas also...

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Post by victorj » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:12 am

I do agree with some points, yes opencart is not perfect, and can do with improvements.
i would argueu that that store site is olmost there, but certainly the admin can be much better.

But have a look at all the others, you either have to pay a lot for the core and every extension you need and neither is perfect either.

before going to opencart i used cubecart, great system, but at the time where lacking seo urls, admin on some point better (product options) on other things worse.

I try to keep track of all options for ecommerce, and each time i find a atvantage there always is a disadvantige, in my opion, the perfect solution does not exist, just find that one that is the closed to what you want within your budget.

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https://koelcel-onderdelen.com

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Post by Iamdbat » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:17 pm

But have a look at all the others, you either have to pay a lot for the core and every extension you need and neither is perfect either.
I don't expect perfection but what i do expect is when I pay and install a third party extension it should work without me having to have a computer degree in code so to speak. The time investment spent in setting up a successful website is no joke

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Post by Dhaupin » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:22 am

Dont give up man. I wont really comment from the opinion side, so just a couple thoughts from the objective side:

OC 2.0 is not just a 1.5.6 skin -- it has alot of little performance tweaks, a new mod system, software hooks, more JSON, an API, better reports, mobile support front and back etc. Alot of their time is going into these layers to provide a better *baseline* which should make more stable extensions in the future. True the skin seems like its getting alot of attention, but once its done its done (with native bootstrap for furthering extension compatibility).

Does this address many of the missing functions of OC? Absolutely not...things affecting real world commerce like manual orders, line item product edit, backend card processing, product options, category filters, and others have been flawed, missing, or half built for literally years.

Features like above may seem really important to you as an owner, but for a developer of OC they may be moot when compared to small/security issues constantly rearing the head. I think we can all work together to have our cake and eat it too. Neither side can "lose their cool" though. May take time but all platforms went through this feature-crush turbulent seas, OC will come out the other side better in general, and more able to incorporate these shop owner requests in a stable way.

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Post by labeshops » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:23 am

I had 30 multi-stores up and running in opencart within HOURS, so I cannot say I agree with your assessment.

No it's not perfect and I agree the programmers really should work with 1 or more store owners to figure out what is really needed (I volunteer by the way if Daniel is reading this!) or pay very close attention to requests in the forums in order to add more features to the core product. But out of the box with no modifications, Opencart works and can be set up quickly and easily.

3rd party modules will always be 3rd party and may or may not have issues (mostly I've had issues with them not working along with things I've changed or other modules I've added, but after the first year of using opencart realized I didn't need 1/2 the addons I thought I did or had learned how to many the minor modifications I wanted myself). Perhaps a new category of module could be created for ones that have been tested, verified and approved by Opencart, but requiring all add ons to be verified sort of is against the open source nature of the product imo.

Running Opencart v2.2 with multi-stores from http://www.labeshops.com which has links to all my stores.

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Post by motofox » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:27 pm

As a first time user of opencart in the last few days, i can tell you i have been horrified with it, whoever decided to release an unfinished buggy beta product on there main page has shot themselfs in the foot.. i struggle with seeing the text and interface properly on oc 2 as its so faint and hard to read.. ive seen oc 15 on youtube and it looks much better so might give that one last try.

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Post by labeshops » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:07 pm

I admit I have not played with 2.0 yet and from the sounds of it, it probably shouldn't have been released yet (at least not so readily available on the downloads page). I know some people had no problems though and are loving it (on a new install), and others have had issues. I am planning to do a test fresh install of it when I get a chance, so will weigh in more on it after that.

For now, I would definitely stick with 1.5.6.4

Running Opencart v2.2 with multi-stores from http://www.labeshops.com which has links to all my stores.

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Post by motofox » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:08 am

i was loving on a fresh install, but issues arise later and it drives you insane.. on latest master i could not delete customers or change there status

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Post by Dhaupin » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:15 am

motofox wrote:As a first time user of opencart in the last few days, i can tell you i have been horrified with it, whoever decided to release an unfinished buggy beta product on there main page has shot themselfs in the foot.. i struggle with seeing the text and interface properly on oc 2 as its so faint and hard to read.. ive seen oc 15 on youtube and it looks much better so might give that one last try.

The faint text is some kinda Chrome (or Google font) bug/thing -- its "open sans" that you see all over the net...all the sites that use it are barely readable. It almost looks like they mixed it up with the "condensed light" version of open sans. Another terribly rendered font that comes to mind is "montserrat"...looks appalling, but only in Chrome. One major SaaS uses it on like 60% of their default themes (30,000+ installs). OC is not alone. Hah.

Its ironic that Chrome has had google web font rendering issues for well over a year. Seems like that would be a top concern for them (making fonts readable....). It even affects their sites, which is ironic.

And you should not use master for live traffic. This goes for any software you will ever use for high stability production: Use the last stable "LTS" release until the dev are at least 3 ahead, which for OpenCart is 1.5.6.4

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Post by Iamdbat » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:49 am

labeshops wrote:I had 30 multi-stores up and running in opencart within HOURS, so I cannot say I agree with your assessment.

3rd party modules will always be 3rd party and may or may not have issues (mostly I've had issues with them not working along with things I've changed or other modules I've added, but after the first year of using opencart realized I didn't need 1/2 the addons I thought I did or had learned how to many the minor modifications I wanted myself). Perhaps a new category of module could be created for ones that have been tested, verified and approved by Opencart, but requiring all add ons to be verified sort of is against the open source nature of the product imo.
Thats fair enough but it really depends upon what you are selling - for example if you are selling eg T-Shirts ... well sure BUT I'm selling COMPLEX products ... ie spare parts and believe me as much as I would like the out of the box solution to work for me .... it simply falls flat and its just small things - categories in the back end for example - apart from being just a small box to work with with a lot of categories it invariably becomes a minefield and a dreary chore to find or add products to categories etc - I could go on and on but I'm sure you would get fed up.

You see its such a shame when a useful tool like OC is only half way and PURPOSEFULLY left unfinished in order to create third party sales via modules and improvements etc.

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Post by IP_CAM » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:22 am

... well sure BUT I'm selling COMPLEX products ...

... yeah, and you rely on a freeware VW-Microbus like OC to make a living !?

It's not my intention to make anyone feel bad, but still, it's a usable tool, as it comes, and a good bases to be enhanced and adapted to many different needs. But one cannot expect a top equipped Mercedes Benz, just by possibly spending 200 Bucks into some extra Modifications, those not even designed, nor, 'legally', technically tested/approved, by the Software 'Manufacturer' himself.

I am fully aware, that OC 'contains' much to much, of 'Stuff', never used, but lack's important stuff as well.. It's Multi/Multi-Design makes it slow, heavy and hard to individually be modified by Non-Coders. It even offers little comfort for Hobby-Type Programmers, 'cause it fully lacks Source Code Information lines, and it is not even specificly built to simply be used with the (later) VqMod-Concept, so preventing possible clashes/errors, if 'combined' with many VqMod's, targeting even mostly the same few 'Anchors' in Sub's to be functional.

But, so what? A Pro would never use VqMod's anyway, a Pro would remove, what's not needed, and add, what's required. A Pro would reshape it, remodel it, without any problems, to make it a real Professional Shop, matching, what Customers expect from a real Pro Online-Shop to look like and be.

But such does not come for free. If it would, everbody would have it and use it. Actually, I am glad, this is not the case, because it would enable anyone to 'look' and function like a Pro, even the cheapest Cheaters and Scammers. I rather accept the really Best, to look Best get Most as well. This is, what I call, Competition. It does not end with the Software used, it starts, everything else is plain hard work. The way, it should be, in a free and open Market!

No offense!
Ernie
openshop.li

PS. To release the v.2 (without a Warning), at such a much to early stage, may has been a real mistake. But I am used, not to get the 'latest' Models, they may don't look so shiny, but they sure work...

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Post by Iamdbat » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:57 am

Tell us something I don't know .... or have you just got time on your hands - have you considered that some of us cannot afford to pay 100K and over for a Bespoke site with yearly maintenance etc?

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Post by Dhaupin » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:09 am

Iamdbat wrote:Tell us something I don't know .... or have you just got time on your hands - have you considered that some of us cannot afford to pay 100K and over for a Bespoke site with yearly maintenance etc?
This will solve a bunch of your product/cat/complexity issues for far less than 100k: http://www.opencart.com/index.php?route ... on_id=5359

Also, why did you pick OC? They clearly have demos and you could see with a 30 minute session making products that the default options are limited and raw. And actually, no matter what cart you try you will be in the same product simplicity boat. The only [affordable] cart able to sell complex products is BigCommerce due to its advanced options rules. But even that platform is terrible for its own reasons (lack of checkbox option for example....LOL). All the others would need to be extended like OC.

The sad truth is that ecom is run by marketeers. The marketeers plan routes for devs, which 99% of the time aligns with 6 month churn-N-burn clothing or jewelry stores. This is because there are significantly more of these type of store. They dont care about features (quality), its about quantity. They def dont want to support complex code either, so if it sells as simple-cart then that is that. OC is different, they are not bending for a marketing department nor do they bend for a parent company like Magento does.

In the end, its like this: If you wanna do it better then contribute to the codebase or build your own cart. Otherwise there is no secret garden out of all the 300+ ecom platforms....even with something like Hybris....all are simplistic and limited in their own ways.

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Post by Iamdbat » Wed May 13, 2015 7:17 am

Dhaupin wrote:
Iamdbat wrote:Tell us something I don't know .... or have you just got time on your hands - have you considered that some of us cannot afford to pay 100K and over for a Bespoke site with yearly maintenance etc?
This will solve a bunch of your product/cat/complexity issues for far less than 100k: http://www.opencart.com/index.php?route ... on_id=5359

Also, why did you pick OC? They clearly have demos and you could see with a 30 minute session making products that the default options are limited and raw. And actually, no matter what cart you try you will be in the same product simplicity boat. The only [affordable] cart able to sell complex products is BigCommerce due to its advanced options rules. But even that platform is terrible for its own reasons (lack of checkbox option for example....LOL). All the others would need to be extended like OC.

Used the daddy og Big Commerce - Intedrspre shopping cart ... but it had no attribute filters - In answer to your question I've spent the last 5 years trying to find an affordable cart that is friendly to my industry at an affordable price - haven't found it yet

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Post by Iamdbat » Wed May 13, 2015 7:27 am

Also I don't need to configure products which demonstrates that even though you are trying to help you really don't understand what I am getting at. Don't get me wrong - I very much appreciate that you took the time - but OC will never develop into a super platform ever! with the current strategy that is in place. I understand that the proprietor is trying to make money but he needs to move away from a juvenile market stall approach! - I think that if OC had a licence fee of 100 bucks per annum - we would pay it provided the quality of improvement soared exponentially and it could .... with such a mass capital investment OC glitches could be solved in months and all these untested and clunky so called extensions would be vaporized with the good ones integrated. I think it's high time Daniel stopped changing the curtains and renovated the room so to speak - somebody should nuggy the guy in my humble opinion.

As for coding stuff - I just want to run a business - I cant offer expertise there but I can see where OC is really wasting its best asset

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