Post by behindtext » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:08 am

hello all,

i have started using opencart just recently and find it to be quite a massive upgrade from oscommerce (which i have used for many moons). thanks for making it :)

i am interested in creating a bitcoin payment module for opencart. my plan is to pay 1 or 2 devs i know to write it and then make it freely available for opencart users. my hope is that someone can point me at the relevant documentation, e.g. api docs, project coding practices, i should supply to devs to code this payment module from the opencart side.

please let me know if this sounds interesting, i look forward to a bit of guidance :)

cheers,
jake

NOTE: the only thing i could find about any existing opencart bitcoin payment option was the link below

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Opencart-bit ... ent-module

this seems to be defunct.

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Post by Qphoria » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:40 am

Yea.. it had been asked about before.. started looking into it only to read a few more recent articles about the bitcoin popularity going from low to even lower because of some bitcoin exchange (Mt.Gox I believe) was making them more useless for some reason. So it never went any further.

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Post by straightlight » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:48 am

By looking at this module, it requires to load external and unregistered libraries within the controllers which also uses a callback that requires another unregistered library to be processed during the order. While I don't really much know about this payment gateway itself, the module is still questionable regarding the way it has been developed.

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Post by behindtext » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:55 pm

Qphoria wrote:Yea.. it had been asked about before.. started looking into it only to read a few more recent articles about the bitcoin popularity going from low to even lower because of some bitcoin exchange (Mt.Gox I believe) was making them more useless for some reason. So it never went any further.
howdy moderator :)

bitcoin has become stable in the last few months and is up year-over-year in value relative to the USD. have a look at

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/

BTC/USD did spike bigtime in june 2011 and this did indeed coincide with mtgox being hacked. i think this volatility is pretty reasonable in light of this being the first currency of its kind.

as a merchant myself i see bitcoin as another option for payment that has a different set of risks: risk from bitcoin is primarily exchange risk when converting to local currency, e.g. USD, versus chargeback fraud risk and merchant fees. i'm interested in trying out the bitcoin risks since i am a bit sick of the one-sided MSP agreements.

do let me know if there are guidelines for code that is submitted, e.g. "you must have everything styled according to rules in this document".

cheers!

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Post by behindtext » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:58 pm

straightlight wrote:By looking at this module, it requires to load external and unregistered libraries within the controllers which also uses a callback that requires another unregistered library to be processed during the order. While I don't really much know about this payment gateway itself, the module is still questionable regarding the way it has been developed.
old code is garbage, noted. i'll ensure the code is not crap, got plenty of experience on QC :)

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Post by MORA » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:01 pm

I am also looking to create a module, based on BitPing.Net or similar service.

I am a PHP programmer, so time permitting, I should be able to do the code, but may take some time.
If you ware planning to use a similar service, I am also willing to throw some bounty at it :)


Note that BitPing.Net is completely opensource, so even if it closes, someone else can clone it and continue the service.
I hope a few copy sites will open in near future, so one does not need to rely on 1 site.

To work with BPN in a basic version the admin would need to enter.
-secret value
-confirmations needed to be accepted (ie. 2 or 6)
-list of public addresses
-timeout before a address can be reused, preferably counted from time of order being complete, ie. 24hours or 7days

When a customer wants to pay, we select the address that was used the longest time ago and not assigned to an active order.
Then ask the user to pay to this address.
Optionally: AJAX update to show when a unconfirmed payment is recieved.

Backend will be called when we have the required confirmations, and we then mark order as completed/payed/shipped etc.

I have a basic example on github, on how to use the system - https://github.com/MORA99/BitPing.Net/t ... n/shops/s1

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Post by gamerkeys » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:14 pm

bit-pay has a module for there service

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Post by MORA » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:08 pm

bit-pay is a good solution for some shops.
I would however prefer a solution that does not include fees and where payments are sent directly to addresses owned by the shop owner.
-Also that does not depend on a service, you cannot easy replicate.

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Post by straightlight » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:22 pm

I would however prefer a solution that does not include fees and where payments are sent directly to addresses owned by the shop owner.
All online transactions either requires a payment gateway or an offline payment processing which both requires payment from related manufacturers as even most payment gateway charges less than a dollar per each transactions (recurring profiles for instance).

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Post by MORA » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:56 pm

straightlight wrote: All online transactions either requires a payment gateway or an offline payment processing which both requires payment from related manufacturers as even most payment gateway charges less than a dollar per each transactions (recurring profiles for instance).
Im not sure how well you know bitcoin ?

Bitcoin is not your average payment system, its a totally new concept.
All transactions in bitcoin are public, so you do not have to trust a payment gateway to use them.

ie. you can use BitPing.Net to get information that a customer has paid an order, without BPN ever having access to the funds being payed.
And if you want to be totally self sufficient, you can run the bitcoind program locally on the server and monitor for incoming payments, again without the server actually having access to the funds.

With bitcoin everyone is/can be their own payment processor, theres noone to trust, pay fees to or agree with to be a merchant.

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Post by straightlight » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:24 pm

No need to try it. I already found the Currency exchange list for this highly limited service: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Currency_exchanges . There seem to be a lot of 'no' on the border.

In addition, it clearly states:
The exchange may take a small percent or charge a fee on withdrawals/deposits as their cost.
on top.

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Post by MORA » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:35 pm

There are people using bitcoin, right now.
And there are merchants looking for solutions to accept bitcoins in their existing setup.
Its been around for a few years sofar, and its not going away, it fixes so many problems from the old ugly fiat systems, but its still a new currency getting traction.

If you are going to comment on a module for bitcoin, it would be prudent to get some understanding of what it is first.
Saying that all online payments requires a processor is just not correct anymore.

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Post by MORA » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:39 pm

straightlight wrote:No need to try it. I already found the Currency exchange list for this highly limited service: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Currency_exchanges . There seem to be a lot of 'no' on the border.

In addition, it clearly states:
The exchange may take a small percent or charge a fee on withdrawals/deposits as their cost.
on top.
That is fees to convert fiat money to bitcoins, not accepting bitcoin as payment.
You do not have to use a big exchange to get your coins, they can be mined or brought from others.

Buying BTC from an exchange is just like buying foeing currency when travelling, the shop accepting that currency gets no part of the fees from your business with an exchange.

Its okay to be critical about bitcoin, but please research the topic first and make valid arguments.

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Post by straightlight » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:40 pm

Even thought somehow or someday a free online transaction system would appear for International use, charges will always be involved during the process period whether I state a payment processor is required or not. In the end, per each transactions the customer makes, the results are definitely the same because nothing is definitely free in this world and especially not when checking out an item. ;)

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Post by straightlight » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:43 pm

Its okay to be critical about bitcoin, but please research the topic first and make valid arguments.
It's not really about an argument there but simply to address that saying Bitcoin is free is false statement while the manufacturer clearly indicates on site that it isn't totally free.
Last edited by straightlight on Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by MORA » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:45 pm

straightlight wrote:Even thought somehow or someday a free online transaction system would appear for International use, charges will always be involved during the process period whether I state a payment processor is required or not. In the end, per each transactions the customer makes, the results are definitely the same because nothing is definitely free in this world and especially not when checking out an item. ;)
What it may cost someone to get their hands on bitcoin have nothing to do with what fees are related to a transaction.
Bitcoins can be had with a minimal amount of fees, even 0%, yes there are people willing to do a 1:1 exchange of bitcoins for fiat.

This thread is about accepting bitcoin without paying additional fees to a payment processor, by using a notification service or running the bitcoind program yourself.
How someone gets their coins is of no interest to the problem.

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Post by MORA » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:48 pm

straightlight wrote: It's not really about an argument there but simply to address that saying Bitcoin is free is false statement while the manufacturer clearly indicates on site that it isn't totally free.
I did not say bitcoins are free, but that I prefer a solution that does not involve fees in the acceptance of bitcoin.
Obviously I cannoot control how people get their coins and what they pay for that service.
I CAN however control what fee are being added to accept the coins, and that should be 0%

The wiki you are linking to is a informational page about bitcoin, they are manufactored("mined") by peers around the world, not one manufactor.

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Post by gamerkeys » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:14 pm

If you really need a module that bad there are a lot of people in the btc community that are great devs that will make a full module for you. pm me and I will send you the email of a dev that has made modules already. but remember you must also have a server running to process everything.

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Post by behindtext » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:07 am

gamerkeys wrote:If you really need a module that bad there are a lot of people in the btc community that are great devs that will make a full module for you. pm me and I will send you the email of a dev that has made modules already. but remember you must also have a server running to process everything.
good to see some lively discussion about bitcoin ;D

what i find particularly irritating as a vendor is the way in which the credit card companies behave: they control the main accepted method for paying instantaneously and then use that to

- instantaneously withdraw funds when they receive a chargeback request, even if it is obviously fraudulent. the onus is on you, the vendor, to waste time sorting it all out.

- not give merchant accounts to "high risk" merchants, where in many cases "high risk" simply means "stuff CC companies disapprove of that is totally legal"

- bleed your personal information to anyone who gets your physical mail with unsolicited CC offers

- encourage fraud by refusing to update the credit card infrastructure which is essentially 1970s technology with some extra security features bolted on after the fact e.g. CVV codes and AVS at gateway

there are plenty more reasons to avoid the CC companies but that should be enough to think about.

plz pm me the email of the bitcoin dev you're referring to, i'll contact him.

thx

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Post by peterjhon » Mon May 14, 2012 6:16 pm

I think you should use Open Transaction in place of Bitcoin.it has awesome feature than Bitcoin like untraceable digital cash, payment plans and basket currencies. Bitcoin is outdated.
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