developer docs? (and OC x CrC)

I'm having a tough time deciding between OC and CrC. I'm a developer and whichever I pick I'm going to have to work on a lot.

I looked at the documentation for OC, but it's really only a definition list. The quirks about any particular settings aren't even noted. I would have like to have seen a 'Common issues getting started' section at least. Searching through the forum I saw quite the number of people asking about the friendly URL aliases and although it's usually a missing "seo keyword" setting, there's not a faq mentioning it. The definition list only says "SEO Keyword: Keyword used for SEO". How about a 'duhhhh'. Stating the same thing back to you... in reverse? How about "This is the word that is placed in the url when the SEO Friendly URLs are enabled" with a hyperlink on "SEO Friendly URLs".

CrC's wiki is more developer oriented and goes into a little detail beyond "the folder named controller is the controller folder".


Neither OC and CrC's code has much (any) comments so looking at it is a mystery unless every line is analyzed. I'd like to see a definition list for all the functions, that would be usefull. PHPDoctor is pretty nice, but that's probably asking way to much.

OC is also EU centric. It's find that it's developed in the EU and everything is set to pounds and kilograms, but it would be nice if dollars and pounds (and maybe oz) were at least entered into the back end by default, so the starting user doesn't need to go figure out how to add that which could take a while and they would only need to do once. If it was already there, chances are the majority would never need to even bother figuring out how to add a new unit.


This is an open source project, but are there a lot of active developers? With the lack of any info for developers to use this, it doesn't seem very inviting. If there's only a couple [developers], how open are they to outside development and integrating good clean code into the core? How rapid is new development? I can understand that if there's only a couple people new feature requests could take a while, but if the code is just given to them, it should be rather quick to just integrate it.


I had already made a template for CrC and then I looked at the code and it doesn't use PHP5's class access specifiers or the Model piece of MVC. Then I looked at OC's code and found it cleaner, using models and class specifiers.

They both have a few features the other doesn't; all of which are usefull. I'd want to port whichever features over to whichever one I picked. Though they each do somethings in incompatable manners. For ex in OC, it has a beautiful page to add product options, yet it's hampered because options have to be created individually for all products. If there are 20 products all with the same options, like, clothing (sm/med/lg), they need to be entered over and over and over again.

I'm not sure how willing the developers of either cart would be to fix some of the issues. They might not see them as such, as they must have picked their methods in those directions at some point.


Both OC and CrC are significantly faster than what's out there and have much better code with the MVC. ZenCart and Magneto are so slow I want to shoot myself. And ZenCart's code makes me sick to my stomach. They also said the beta would be release soon... 8 months ago, and then said yeah, its ready now.. 2 months ago. They didn't do a 100% rewrite so it's still going to be crap.


Well, I've rambled on enough. Both carts are good, but they both need work.

I was just looking for other peoples opinions.

Thanks,
Adam

As I know both OC and CRC(old version of OC) create by daniel, then he stop developing the old version and start the new version which is more clean and nicer.

ChromiumCart is now an independent branch which started on the 0.7.9 basis and already has a number of features in there which are not available in Opencart 1.x. Opencart 1.x is more or less a complete rewrite of Opencart, using a different MVC framework now and a more pronounced Model-part in its MVC (unlike ChromiumCart).

In the end of the day, both are easy to understand as long as a developer has knowledge about the MVC, MySQL and PHP. It is really the features which decides which cart is right for a particular e-commerce project.

phazei wrote: I looked at the documentation for OC, but it's really only a definition list. The quirks about any particular settings aren't even noted. I would have like to have seen a 'Common issues getting started' section at least. Searching through the forum I saw quite the number of people asking about the friendly URL aliases and although it's usually a missing "seo keyword" setting, there's not a faq mentioning it. The definition list only says "SEO Keyword: Keyword used for SEO". How about a 'duhhhh'. Stating the same thing back to you... in reverse? How about "This is the word that is placed in the url when the SEO Friendly URLs are enabled" with a hyperlink on "SEO Friendly URLs".

CrC's wiki is more developer oriented and goes into a little detail beyond "the folder named controller is the controller folder".

This is an open source project, but are there a lot of active developers? With the lack of any info for developers to use this, it doesn't seem very inviting. If there's only a couple [developers], how open are they to outside development and integrating good clean code into the core? How rapid is new development? I can understand that if there's only a couple people new feature requests could take a while, but if the code is just given to them, it should be rather quick to just integrate it.

In both cases, the carts are still pretty new and the dev teams are small... one core coder each. Each handling all aspects from backend libraries to upfront templates. So while we both work diligently, there are only so many hours in a day. This version of OpenCart has only been around for around 6 months, and chromium was just rebranded and released only 2 weeks ago. So it does take a little time to get the important but extremely tedious steps of documentation up and useful. I put together the wiki on CrC's site in about an hour.. just to get the ball rolling. But I'd rather focus on getting the code improved and new features added.

Regarding code.... coding practices differ. Even with clean code, you get the people that like things like if/else with no braces, or opening braces on their own line, which makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Not to say it isn't nice to have the code done so it only needs to be ported though. Clean code is important, butI think we both focus on the community for assistance in creating new features regardless of the code structure. As long as it works. Later, if it is something that people feel should go into the core, it's usually pretty easy to add it and clean it up.

I'm not sure how willing the developers of either cart would be to fix some of the issues. They might not see them as such, as they must have picked their methods in those directions at some point.

Can't know until you ask I am always open to discuss any feature, as sometimes different people see things a different way, then other community members can get involved and some sort of census can be formed. It is community driven, and sometimes people have great ideas, and other times people's ideas are so bad they should be banned from ever having an idea again.

Both OC and CrC are significantly faster than what's out there and have much better code with the MVC. ZenCart and Magneto are so slow I want to shoot myself. And ZenCart's code makes me sick to my stomach. They also said the beta would be release soon... 8 months ago, and then said yeah, its ready now.. 2 months ago. They didn't do a 100% rewrite so it's still going to be crap.

Amen. I came from Zen-cart, working with their code for 5 years, and still trying to find some direction of where I was going with it. By the time I was done with a feature, I had trouble retracing my steps as to which files I was editing for what reason. It's a feature-rich improvement to osCommerce I guess, but almost to a fault... and using the old osC framework isn't helping any.

Well, I've rambled on enough.

Agreed

Both carts are good, but they both need work.

Also agreed

Hi..

I am on the same boat with phazei.
Both carts are great!

But in the end, we only need to choose one, then port the features
we want if it's not available.
If we can't do it, then there are commercial options - which on my opinion is a good
way to help developers compensate for their efforts.

For ex in OC, it has a beautiful page to add product options, yet it's hampered because options have to be created individually for all products. If there are 20 products all with the same options, like, clothing (sm/med/lg), they need to be entered over and over and over again.

Does ChromiumCart have this feature already?

What about the Product Specials for OC?
It would be great if somebody would spend a bit of time to do a latest feature comparison between the two..

richard wrote:Hi..

For ex in OC, it has a beautiful page to add product options, yet it's hampered because options have to be created individually for all products. If there are 20 products all with the same options, like, clothing (sm/med/lg), they need to be entered over and over and over again.

Does ChromiumCart have this feature already?

Chromium uses a shared pool method. Somewhat lacking in the "oohs and ahhs" of the smooth ajax add (at this time). But depending on your needs, makes it easy to add lots of products that use a common set of options without having to add them each time.

What about the Product Specials for OC?

The Specials Manager is exclusive to ChromiumCart at this time.

Hmm, no reply from Daniel?

Since they both are so so new an need so much work, it's a shame they forked so early.

Qphoria, even though you started your own, you are still quite active in this OC forum as well as your own.

Daniel, is there a feature list you're working on? Are you at all interested in separating some of your features into separate sections to provide more universal functionality? Like the specials, images, options? The ajax and jquery implementation is great, but more functionality in those areas would be better.

What's OC and CrC's vision's of their companys? Just because something is open source doesn't make it open community. Lots of open source projects have small for profit professional teams working on them and don't really make a community call for wide spread development. Heck, my new Maxtor NAS has an open source driver.. and horrible functionality.

...or opening braces on their own line, which makes me want to gouge my eyes out...

LOL . Agreed

phazei wrote:Hmm, no reply from Daniel?
Since they both are so so new an need so much work, it's a shame they forked so early.

I don't think they need "that" much work... compared to what is out there, they are both off to a quick start.. even if they are young. Chromium is based on 2+ years of the original design. But hats off to Daniel for making 1.x one of the fastest time-to-market releases I've ever used. Even Zen-Cart with its 7+ years or osC with its 10+ years under its belt needs more improvement than these 2 carts as far as engine design. They might lack in features, but considering the age, I think they are both progressing faster than they should be.

Qphoria, even though you started your own, you are still quite active in this OC forum as well as your own.

I'm just here to help and learn. I started out in OpenCart helping and still continue to do so. CrC is just another adventure... kinda natural progression IMO

What's OC and CrC's vision's of their companys?

open source .. and horrible functionality.

That's my vision
You will usually see my brainstorms on the CrC forums on new ideas & directions I have. Honestly this started out as just a little learning adventure... I still don't know if people like my changes for the cart. But it was still fun to learn.

It's not really a contest.. well I guess it is.. but tbh I'm just looking to try some cool things and learn as I do it. I didn't know a think about ajax a year ago, but I've learned a lot lately and am trying to use more of it. But also trying to get realistic and useful functionality as well. If people like it.. great.. if not... great

So what features does Chromium have that Opencart doesn't? Can you make a new topic, I'm pretty interested.

I just started using opencart and have been building e-commerce sites for about 5 years now. For my higher end customers I use a commercial cart that I believe is hands down the best cart on the market and that includes the free ones. The code is excellent and the price is not out of this world but sometimes even a $300 price tag is too much for some customers. I really had given up on open source carts until I found open cart.

I have not looked into any of the branches yet but I am wondering doesn't a branch inherently dilute the productivity of an open source project? What were the reasons for branching? Wouldn't it be more beneficial for the community to support the original project? Is one more community driven and one personally driven? Fill me in.

In 10 points....

1. OpenCart 0.x was based on a different framework. At the time there was Daniel doing the main coding, hm2k & Qphoria doing bug fixes and improvements.
2. Daniel decided to switch his focus to OpenCart 1.x. A new framework and design.
3. In the mean time, hm2k & Qphoria kept working on OpenCart 0.x to make it better
4. When 1.x came out, we had spent so much time improving 0.x that we felt it didn't deserve to just be killed off
5. hm2k & Qphoria split it off to a new brand. Now only Qphoria remains on that project.
6. Qphoria has done lots of under-the-hood changes, probably about 50% of the code has changed.
7. More than anything he has learned TONS by working on the project by himself.
8. OpenCart 1.x is extremely well done and Daniel's web dev experience and the speed of which he can crank things out is unbeatable.
9. Chromium is growing in features as I grow in experience. It's not as "refined" as I've had many internal battles on which way to go. But I learn more daily and I have lots of ideas to try.
10. Both are fully working carts with lots of modules and great minds at the helm. Plus I work with both It comes down to the finer features of what you are looking for in a cart system. We have different ways of handling different features, and each have features that the other doesn't.

Chromium is not a "branch" persay... It's become its own cart and has its own individuality.
One analogy is like osCommerce vs ZenCart.. they started at the same place but went in different directions (tho both the wrong direction...but I digress)

Feature lists:
http://forum.chromiumcart.com
http://www.opencart.com

Ok so long story short is that you didn't want to lose all the hard work and man hours on the improvements to the former cart and the new cart was so different that porting was not a viable option. I can understand that. I'll have to take a look at chromium too.