Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by Web-developer » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:16 pm

Hello, this message is likely to be addressed to developers for next release's update. It's not a functional bug - rather geographical suggestion. I've set for my clients 1.4.7 back in a days, but today's release still hasn't got this option, so I thought it would be useful to share it with You.

One of my customers sent me a nasty letter from a customer who complained that he cannot find his region (or county in UK). None of us has there probably ever been but that's a fact that they still place orders and they trust OpenCart.

Please add Channel Islands into UK zone. Apparently people do use British postcodes out there.
... it was not until the early 1990s that the islands joined the UK's postcode system, Jersey postcodes using the initials JE and Guernsey using GY ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Islands
I also sent this issue to one of my friends who has got "Lord" title - not "Mr." and he used to be in parliament, so I reckon he knows what he is talking about. This is quote from his email:
Actually, it is an independently governed state but it has the same postal charges from the UK as any other place. So just pop it in as a normal option for the UK - definitely Not France. You will offend them.
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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by fido-x » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:34 pm

You could always add them in yourself through the admin under "System->Localization->Zones".

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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by Qphoria » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:34 pm

ok so where am I adding this? Sounds like you want them as UK Zones.. but looking at the wikipedia page it looks like they are almost their own country with their own zones (jersey, guernsey)

So should I add zone Channel Islands to UK? with what zone code? CI?
I've seen another site use Jersey as its own country with no zones..

You internationals need to start standardizing stuff if you want to leave 3rd world status!

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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by peteVA » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:09 am

I've just added each to my cart. They all have slightly different setups with Royal Mail. Some RM does letters, but not parcels, etc.

However, they all have RM postal codes, as far as I can determine. I ship quite a few orders to them and also the Isle of Man. I put them all under the UK and have had no problems, either with the RM from Hong Kong or Hong Kong Post. Same with DHL, for that matter.

Just add them as counties or whatever under the UK and they will get the goods. Not something I do daily, but have sent enough to know it will work.

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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:29 am

ok thanks

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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by SXGuy » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:07 am

i think you could argue the same point about northern ireland being under United Kingdom lol

We all know it is, but its still its own country.
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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by Moggin » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:21 am

Qphoria wrote:You internationals need to start standardizing stuff if you want to leave 3rd world status!
too right, lol!
Uninteresting facts...
Channel islands are not part of the UK, but postage rates (Royal mail) from the UK are the same.
Isle of Man is not part of the UK either, and the same applies.

Neither Channel Islands nor Isle of Man are part of the EU.

The Isle of Man pays/charges UK VAT in a reciprocal arrangement, but the Channel Islands don't (to the best of my knowledge).

So....in our case, we added IoM to the UK regions list (not technically correct) but left the Channel Islands off, since we have to zero VAT rate any goods we send there.

In the UK, it's each to his own on this one. I think CI should really be its own country, ie not in the UK section at all - but that's just my view... ???
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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:55 pm

Funny. I remember someone asking us to add Isle of Man to the zone list so I did.. and this morning I see I got an order from someone from there... I guess it was the one "man" from that isle

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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by peteVA » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:59 am

We are not talking politics or bruised feelings, simply "postal reality".

I don't know of anyone (well maybe a few selling propaganda and hate) using a cart for political purposes. They are simply to sell products and hopefully get them delivered properly so proof of delivery can be provided, if ever asked.

If you go to the ISO listings you'll see that Isle of Man and the "cow islands" all have their own, but if you want to get mail to them you use Royal Mail.

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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by Moggin » Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:05 am

Qphoria wrote:Funny. I remember someone asking us to add Isle of Man to the zone list so I did.. and this morning I see I got an order from someone from there... I guess it was the one "man" from that isle
Thought he'd order sooner or later! :laugh:


@peteVA, quite right - in postal terms we're all one country. It's only that the Channel Islands are no-VAT /non-EU zone, so we (in the EU) can't charge VAT to businesses in the Channel Islands. That's why I might list them as their own country - which technically they are.

If shipping from non-EU countries though, it's non-issue where they are (even though the islanders might feel differently ;) )
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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by peteVA » Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:22 am

Yes, I know some Chinese sources are setting up shared warehouse / fulfillment centers on the Channel Islands in order to get low value goods shipped from there into the UK as one piece dropships, which are below the minimum VAT. Where if they actually stored in the UK they would have to pay VAT on the entire shipment.

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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by Qphoria » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:07 am

So I still have no idea what I'm adding here..
am I adding "Channel Islands" as a zone?
or am I adding each of the islands as a separate zone
Jersey
Guernsey
Alderney
Sark
Herm

??

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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by Moggin » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:59 am

Q, I think you had it right the first time.

Channel Islands = separate country - not part of UK, not least because of the tax issues.
2 zones within the Channel Islands: Guernsey and Jersey.

I think that's it - but now I can see why you're asking about the other islands.
Royal Mail show small differences in the services between them! ugh, well, you could add the other islands as CI zones, it wouldn't hurt.

The main thing is to keep the Channel Islands as a separate country, and Jersey /Guernsey, at least, as zones within that country. If anyone thinks that's wrong, speak up :)

UK's Parcelforce regard them as one international destination! :crazy: :clown:
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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by SXGuy » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:08 am

Funny enough, i got mail the other day, and the reply to address was Guernsey, channel islands :) hope that clears things up.

Pointless to argue over where royal mail does and doesnt post to.
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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by Qphoria » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:40 pm

OK I added it as a country in 1.4.9.4 and added the 5 zones (jersey, alderney, etc) to that country

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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by allenshea » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:59 am

Can we also have Serbia in country and zone? Although I have already added in my shop, but if can officially add them would be good.

Thanks.

I know nothing about PHP and SQL, but I still try my best to understand it.

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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by mcamca » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:05 pm

Qphoria wrote:OK I added it as a country in 1.4.9.4 and added the 5 zones (jersey, alderney, etc) to that country
Jersey and Guernsey should not be included within the United Kingdom (official name "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" - Country code - GB)
Jersey and Guernsey have different royal mail postal rates to the UK. They are not part of the EU and also require customs declaration.
They and their regions collectively are generally known as the Channel Islands but in fact they are separate countries.
Country Alpha-2 code Alpha-3 code
Guernsey GG GGY
Jersey JE JEY

Guernsey is not part of the UK. Guernsey is a British Crown Dependency which embraces the islands of Herm, Jethou, Burhou, and Lihou and their islet possessions. It also administers some aspects of two nearby crown dependencies (Alderney and Sark), and the island of Brecqhou.

Jersey is not part of the UK. Jersey is a British Crown Dependency which also embraces two groups of small islands that are no longer permanently inhabited, the Minquiers and Écréhous, and the Pierres de Lecq.

They should not technically be entered as the Channel Islands which is not recognised as a country!
They should be entered separately as:
Jersey
Guernsey
with regions as set out above!

Hope this helps!

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1

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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by mcamca » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:26 pm

Slovenia is included as a country in Opencart but has no Zones set for it!

I have entered for my shop via admin/system/localisation/Zones:

Slovenia - Zones as follows (don't know whether they are correct!):

Pomurska [PM], Podravska [PD], Koroška [KR], Savinjska [SV], Zasavska [ZS], Spodnjeposavska [SO]
Osrednjeslovenska [OR], Gorenjska [GR], Goriška [GN], Obalno-kraška [OA],Jugovzhodna Slovenija[JG],Notranjsko-kraška {NT]

Should be included in next SQL!
Last edited by mcamca on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by Moggin » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:14 pm

mcamca wrote:They should not technically be entered as the Channel Islands which is not recognised as a country!
They should be entered separately as:
Jersey
Guernsey
with regions as set out above!--
Hi mcamca, this is technically correct: but it seemed wise to draw a line somewhere :) Also, in the UK, we have addressed and received mail to/from 'Guernsey, CI' and 'Jersey, CI' for many years: it is more or less accepted practice. So I think the current solution will be fine.

In any case, the more I looked into regions/counties/EU/non-EU etc, the dafter it seemed! :D It gets embarrassing trying to explain it, considering how small some of these areas are.
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Re: Region/State missing in UK zone listing

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Post by mcamca » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:04 pm

Hi mcamca, this is technically correct: but it seemed wise to draw a line somewhere :) Also, in the UK, we have addressed and received mail to/from 'Guernsey, CI' and 'Jersey, CI' for many years: it is more or less accepted practice. So I think the current solution will be fine.

In any case, the more I looked into regions/counties/EU/non-EU etc, the dafter it seemed! :D It gets embarrassing trying to explain it, considering how small some of these areas are.
Nice to hear from you again Moggin!
Someone operating a store may have a carrier who charges considerably more to ship to Guernsey or Jersey and they need to alter the code to accept this. Hence they should be treated as separate countries. (At a later date Opencart may want to include these additional carriers, better to get it correct now rather than have to change everthing!)
A similar problem exists now with the UK. Many carriers (usually the best and the cheapest!) charge different rates for:
1. England and Wales
2. Most of Scotland
3 Outlying areas of Scotland
4. One zone of Northern Ireland.
5. The rest of Northern Ireland.
Its easy enough to generate the additional files for shipping by a different carrier, a bit more difficult to cope with the UK being lumped together!
After all, when operating a store it's important not to keep losing on the shipping costs because countries etc. are grouped together when they should'nt be!
Best Regards mcamca.
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Last edited by mcamca on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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