Post by caleb » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:10 pm

SapporoGuy wrote:
Out curiosity, what programming language does your company's retail site use? (don't need to know the name of the store).
That's kind of a trick question. You can say Java, but our "site" entails dozens of classes of servers all doing different things and even the same class of server will sometimes have different functionality. Most of the different pieces run on a different language. Primarily, we are java though and we are pushing our dev teams to re-write the parts that are not java, to be java. The only languages we don't have on any part of our front end is M$ languages. We have some C, some python, some cgi, some ruby, etc.


EDIT: ...and yes, I am saying Magento requires tuning, plain and simple. I see my typo now that makes it look like I was saying otherwise :D
Last edited by caleb on Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Xsecrets » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:14 pm

caleb wrote: As afar as CMS goes, go take a peak at ANY major e-commerce store
ok lets just take #1 amazon where's their cms? I don't remember seeing any cms type pages on amazon.

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Post by SapporoGuy » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:16 pm

So we're all saying the same thing then? Different solutions for different needs
I can agree on that! ;D


And it does look like I misread that.
Sorry :-[

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Post by caleb » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:19 pm

Xsecrets wrote:
caleb wrote: As afar as CMS goes, go take a peak at ANY major e-commerce store
ok lets just take #1 amazon where's their cms? I don't remember seeing any cms type pages on amazon.

Read on...nearly every link in their footer is a page that's managed by some type of CMS. Like I said before, a CMS is not a blog.

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Post by Xsecrets » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:24 pm

caleb wrote:
Qphoria wrote:
I can't think of one that has a CMS. If they have one I've not found it so its certainly no major feature.
http://www.bestbuy.com
http://www.jcpenney.com
http://www.walmart.com
http://www.target.com
http://www.amazon.com
Seriously??? Look at the footer of every one of those, those pages are all managed through a CMS of some sort. CMS != Blog.
ok well it's easy enough to put your information pages links in the footer, and wow done you have a cms. So if just having a link to a page that is not a product page or is definable in the admin then opencart has it, and before you go saying well it's easier in Magento I've tried to change the links in the footer on a magento site. you have to grep through every file in the system to change them including core files. It's a ridiculous thing to have to do to change some links you sould be able to just do it in your template, but no not with magento.
Qphoria wrote: Upgrading is an issue I suppose, but I'm not sure how magento handles code customizations.. If you wanted to add a new field to the customer registration or add a custom field to the product table and show that new field as a column to the product list.. how do you add it without changing the code?
Maybe you guys should be familiar with your "competition" before bashing it :) Magento handles it much like your VQMod does. You rarely ever touch a core file with Magento, and if the mods are done properly, they won't modify core files. Most of the stuff you have to modify files for in OC, you can do from within the Admin panel with Magento.
I've seen many a magento store completely breakdown on upgrades. They claimed from the beginning that you would be able to make modifications and they wouldn't be affected by upgrades, but that just does not happen. At least not if it's a mod of any substance.

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Post by caleb » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:25 pm

SapporoGuy wrote:
@ top 25 stores
That would be interesting to see.
Here is the list of the top online retail sites listed in order of Top performers to Worst performers for yesterday.
• Overstock.com 0.79
• LL Bean 0.93
• Dell 0.93
• Kohls 0.97
• QVC, Inc. 1.00
• Williams Sonoma 1.00
• J Crew 1.06
• Newegg 1.10
• Nordstrom 1.12
• CDW 1.20
• Zappos 1.25
• Sears 1.32
• Avon 1.33
• Apple Shopping 1.34
• Scholastic 1.34
• Wal-Mart 1.36
• Oriental Trading 1.37
• Saks 1.39
• Gap Online 1.43
• Cabelas 1.45
• Musicians Friend 1.46
• Best Buy Online 1.49
• Tiger Direct 1.52
• Office Max 1.56
• Barnes and Noble 1.58
• Office Depot 1.58
• JC Penney 1.59
• Blockbuster 1.65
• PC Connection 1.66
• Amazon.com 1.75
Benchmark Average 2.09
• Target Home Page 2.12
• Vista Print 2.12
• Victoria Secret 2.16
• HSN. 2.33
• Macys 2.33
• Staples 2.40
• The Home Depot 2.46
• Peapod 2.51
• HP Shop 2.93
• 1,800 Flowers 3.00
• Costco 3.06
• Nutrisystem 3.25
• Netflix 3.74
• Buy.com 3.82
• Toys R Us.. 4.04
• Neiman Marcus 4.04
• Drugstore.com 5.02
• Nike 5.56
• Quixtar 6.16

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Post by Xsecrets » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:28 pm

how would anyone actually know what the top performing stores are on a daily basis.

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Post by Qphoria » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:35 pm

caleb wrote:

Seriously??? Look at the footer of every one of those, those pages are all managed through a CMS of some sort. CMS != Blog.
Eh? Where? contact us? store information? about us? these are basic information pages that opencart does have already. I see http://www.walmartstores.com but that is a completely diff site. I dont see a CMS or blog, and yes I know the diff.
Maybe you guys should be familiar with your "competition" before bashing it :) Magento handles it much like your VQMod does. You rarely ever touch a core file with Magento, and if the mods are done properly, they won't modify core files. Most of the stuff you have to modify files for in OC, you can do from within the Admin panel with Magento.
If i gave a shit what the "other guys" did every minute of my life I'd get nowhere. Saying it rarely touches doesn't really mean anything to me. I'm betting you can't do what i said without touching code. Not to say it isn't possible to be more dynamic.. but that would also likely be why they are slower

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Post by caleb » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:39 pm

Xsecrets wrote:how would anyone actually know what the top performing stores are on a daily basis.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at??? If you're wondering how you come up with those numbers, those sites are all monitored very heavily by third parties and the report is published. Everything is watched very closely, those reports take in to account first byte time (time it takes to receive the first byte from the site), full page load, overall site load, etc and these are all monitored from locations from several locations from around the world and those numbers all go in to the calculation. Taking the number one spot on that list is a huge deal and (since overall performance greatly influences the customer experience) plays a direct role in the dollars you bring in. Being number one doesn't mean you made the most money that day since Apple is obviously one of the biggest earners on that list, but regularly are batting just a bit above average.

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Post by Xsecrets » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:38 pm

Qphoria wrote: I'm betting you can't do what i said without touching code. Not to say it isn't possible to be more dynamic.. but that would also likely be why they are slower
actually yes everything you mentioned you can do in magento from the admin it is very flexible. Like I told you before pretty much everything is an attribute so product name price everything if you want a new field you simply add a new attribute. I'm not sure about the customer stuff It's been a while since I've messed with it that deeply.

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Post by Xsecrets » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:40 pm

caleb wrote:
Xsecrets wrote:how would anyone actually know what the top performing stores are on a daily basis.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at??? If you're wondering how you come up with those numbers, those sites are all monitored very heavily by third parties and the report is published. Everything is watched very closely, those reports take in to account first byte time (time it takes to receive the first byte from the site), full page load, overall site load, etc and these are all monitored from locations from several locations from around the world and those numbers all go in to the calculation. Taking the number one spot on that list is a huge deal and (since overall performance greatly influences the customer experience) plays a direct role in the dollars you bring in. Being number one doesn't mean you made the most money that day since Apple is obviously one of the biggest earners on that list, but regularly are batting just a bit above average.
ok I thought you were talking about sales not page load performance. I hardly thing it's fair trying to compare page load performance of the top 25 who are most certainly running some custom software spread over many different servers to any sort of off the shelf software.

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Post by Qphoria » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:47 pm

Xsecrets wrote:
Qphoria wrote: I'm betting you can't do what i said without touching code. Not to say it isn't possible to be more dynamic.. but that would also likely be why they are slower
actually yes everything you mentioned you can do in magento from the admin it is very flexible. Like I told you before pretty much everything is an attribute so product name price everything if you want a new field you simply add a new attribute. I'm not sure about the customer stuff It's been a while since I've messed with it that deeply.
I wouldn't call that the same thing. OpenCart 1.5 has attributes. But if I was going to make a new product flag like "date_expires" I wouldn't make that an attribute. That would be a new field in the product table

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Post by Xsecrets » Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:22 am

Qphoria wrote:
Xsecrets wrote:
Qphoria wrote: I'm betting you can't do what i said without touching code. Not to say it isn't possible to be more dynamic.. but that would also likely be why they are slower
actually yes everything you mentioned you can do in magento from the admin it is very flexible. Like I told you before pretty much everything is an attribute so product name price everything if you want a new field you simply add a new attribute. I'm not sure about the customer stuff It's been a while since I've messed with it that deeply.
I wouldn't call that the same thing. OpenCart 1.5 has attributes. But if I was going to make a new product flag like "date_expires" I wouldn't make that an attribute. That would be a new field in the product table
yes, but that's what I'm trying to tell you they don't really do fields in the product table everything is dynamic. you can have a product without a name or a price etc. All the field every single one is defined as an attribute (not really the same thing as what opencart is getting) then the product is made up of attribute sets, so you if you want to add a date_expires you just add it as a new attribute, though dates I'm not sure about there may be a very few fields like that which are tied to the product id. I'm certainly not saying that it's a better way to go. It's more flexible, but much more complicated, and obviously slow though I really have no idea or care for that matter where the slowness is introduced.

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Post by Qphoria » Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:56 am

Ahh i see now what you are saying.. you "Build" each product with attributes and all fields are attributes.. not quite the same way your attributes mod or the 1.5.0 attributes works, which is more for product compare.

Well in that case yea.. that is a nice concept. I too thought about having the product table like the settings table.. where you have key=>value for everything:

Product:
product_id | key | value

1 | name | Tickle me Elmo
1 | model | elmo123
1 | price | 5.00

2 | name | Beat me Louie
2 | model | lou123
2 | sku | 12345

3 | name | Nike Hat
3 | weight | 10lbs
3 | price | 10.00

Maybe I should be programming at Magento! They share my dynamic ideas

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Post by SapporoGuy » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:43 am

Hi Caleb,

I have been trying to figure out this thread for most of the night ...
I think that you have something to say but I'm not getting it. You obviously have experience and I think that I can learn something from that.

Would you mind sharing what that is?
- CMS has been brought up, sure I can dig that. I'm still not a big fan of the WP,Joomla, Modx integration but I think that there is something there that most small shops do want there.

What else do you think is missing that would make opencart a bigger contender?
- Function parity with Magneto and most other shops? Out of the box, I don't agree, but as mods/extensions (I have a thread about a core framework going on here that mentions this more in detail) yes that will help?
- ??? and ...

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Post by Xsecrets » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:48 am

Qphoria wrote:Ahh i see now what you are saying.. you "Build" each product with attributes and all fields are attributes.. not quite the same way your attributes mod or the 1.5.0 attributes works, which is more for product compare.

Well in that case yea.. that is a nice concept. I too thought about having the product table like the settings table.. where you have key=>value for everything:

Product:
product_id | key | value

1 | name | Tickle me Elmo
1 | model | elmo123
1 | price | 5.00

2 | name | Beat me Louie
2 | model | lou123
2 | sku | 12345

3 | name | Nike Hat
3 | weight | 10lbs
3 | price | 10.00

Maybe I should be programming at Magento! They share my dynamic ideas
yes you get it now. On magento when you enter a product the first thing you do is choose which "attribute set" you want the product to have and from what I can tell attributes in comparison to opencart would include all the hard coded fields/options/attributes everything. It's been forever since I've bothered looking into the db, so I don't remember exactly how they handle it there.

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Post by Stefen10 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:30 pm

In fact, I have seen couple of good magento sites recently.

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