Why use OpenCart?

Hi,

The issue of templates...We looked at Interspire.com new shopping cart and to be fair, looks very good, loads of templates, easy to use but a nightmare for variations as you cannot export or import in same data file.

However, the cost...phew!...$1600US for a licence!

I must say I like OC and yes, can understand comments about templates and you know, for the sake of making a few templates (intespire has over 70!) would make OC that little more attractive.

If we all donated a few $'s towards the cost developing templates would perhaps make the suggestion that little more sweeter to the developers?

Opencart has more than 70 if you go to all the custom theme sites
http://www.opencart.com/index.php?route ... /extension
http://opencartthemes.com
http://www.algozone.com/opencart-templates.php
http://www.opencart-templates.com/index ... ry&path=41
http://www.themesandmods.com/category/opencart/

Big deal? You need exactly "1" for your store. There could be only 2 themes available. All you need is one you like. Why does the topic of themes keep coming up? It has nothing to do with the cart itself. It's simply up to you to make or find a theme. Themes are themes. All carts have themes. All CMS' have themes. All Blogs have themes. They are limitless in design. It's the last piece of the software you should be worried about when picking a cart, and considering the alternatives in the free world (zen, osc, etc).. OpenCart has the best default theme of any of them.

But really people, the theme is just your customized touch on style. It's like not buying a car because it doesn't have any stickers on it. So put some damn stickers on it! What's the big deal?

PrimeSiteUK.com wrote: However, the cost...phew!...$1600US for a licence!

Qphoria wrote:Why does the topic of themes keep coming up? It has nothing to do with the cart itself. It's simply up to you to make or find a theme.

Perhaps the fact that the subject of themes keeps coming up should start ringing some bells perhaps??

Making a theme is not an easy proposition for many folks. OpenCart doesn't even appear to have any tutorials or basic documentation on how to achieve changes, which doesn't help newcomers.

One of the links you provide has themes selling for $175, which is the price I'd expect to pay for commercial software, complete with a selection of themes. Another one of the links only offers templates up to version 1.47.

Even if a non tabbed layout was available with those links in the header bar instead, even that would afford more potential for folks to progress with OpenCart. At least they would have a style one, or style two choice to get them started on their way.

Perhaps some practical consideration should finally be given doing something constructive about the whole issue of themes, rather than automatic rebuttal whenever the subject is brought up. Try looking at things 'from the other side of the fence' for a change.

CUSTOM_UK wrote:

Qphoria wrote:Why does the topic of themes keep coming up? It has nothing to do with the cart itself. It's simply up to you to make or find a theme.

Perhaps the fact that the subject of themes keeps coming up should start ringing some bells perhaps??

The only bells it rings are "time to bring the crazies back to the looney bin".

You seem to be battling the existence of themes in general with whether or not they are free with the fact of them being included with the cart. Regardless of the abundance of free and cheap themes, you don't seem to be satisfied because they are not bundled with the cart?

We could take those exact same themes and put them into the core, and based on your arguments, you would be happy. You think that by some miracle if the developers made themes, they would look any different. But you don't seem to realize that a developer DID make the original theme. And people used it as a base to make new themes. And regardless of the different layouts and designs, you still seem to think there are no themes. This is the second conversation that I am having today with a crazy person on these forums.

What are you looking for? I'm sorry you can't design a template. I can't design a template either. Yet I see many options out there on the extensions page (11 free ones and many affordable ones). Even if they aren't perfect, they may get me started with the basic layout. And there are some very affordable ones as well aside from the algozone site. But it comes down to what you want. You get a blank canvas and all the paint you can hold. I can't help it if you can't paint. But there are obviously many other "painters" out there with many unique designs. If you want a good design, then talk to them. You seem to have some specific design in mind but just expect it to be there for you. If you are on a budget and don't want to drop a few bucks on a hot new theme design, then you get the ones that have very little changed and have to figure it out yourself. Just like EVERY other script out there.

phpbb comes with subsilver.. that's it! they dont have any other official themes
drupal comes with the garland theme... that's it! they don't have any other official themes
wordpress comes with one default theme... that's it!
opencart comes with one default theme.... that's it!

Themes are made by the community in all scripts. This is no different. This is the whole point of having a template system. Complain to the community that there aren't enough talented designers here. It would be different if the templates were hardcoded in the core, but they are not. it comes with a simple one called "default". From there the sky is the limit.

CUSTOM_UK wrote: Making a theme is not an easy proposition for many folks. OpenCart doesn't even appear to have any tutorials or basic documentation on how to achieve changes, which doesn't help newcomers.

I did wonder about a quick 4-step guide to (say) changing header colour and logo, plus links. Not really a tutorial, just a couple of pointers.

CUSTOM_UK wrote: Even if a non tabbed layout was available with those links in the header bar instead, even that would afford more potential for folks to progress with OpenCart. At least they would have a style one, or style two choice to get them started on their way.

Qahar did a good no-tab theme, called default2. There are 72 themes in the extensions section, not all to everyone's taste but it's a starting point.... and santolla http://www.eshopalot.com/ , webmastah http://style.st/index.php?route=common/home and Maansy (see above) have terrific themes for all tastes, in addition to the sites listed above.

When I was tinkering with Prestashop (agh! The default ) there were almost no themes: and to be fair, when I first found Opencart there wasn't the range there is now. So I'm a bit baffled about why themes are a problem, there seem so many to my eyes?

Qphoria wrote:The only bells it rings are "time to bring the crazies back to the looney bin".

The only 'crazies' are the clowns that bring out new versions that you can no longer use the older themes with.

Rather than focusing on what other cart producers are doing, why not strive to be different? Otherwise you just never differentiate yourself from all the other open source solutions out there and you just become the poor man's alternative to the likes of Zen Cart.

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Thank you for you assistance Moggin.

CUSTOM_UK wrote:

Qphoria wrote:The only bells it rings are "time to bring the crazies back to the looney bin".

The only 'crazies' are the clowns that bring out new versions that you can no longer use the older themes with.

Rather than focusing on what other cart producers are doing, why not strive to be different? Otherwise you just never differentiate yourself from all the other open source solutions out there and you just become the poor man's alternative to the likes of Zen Cart.

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Thank you for you assistance Moggin.

If followed correctly, any custom themes made for 1.4.0 should work all the way through 1.4.9
Unfortunately, regardless of the documentation, where we show how we are indeed "striving to be different" with the unique template override system. People don't read. They assume it is like every other CMS/cart out there and copy the entire "default" folder and rename it to "blah". This is the mistake. If people followed the guide, there should be virtually no changes needed except where a customized version of the file was changed in the default. And themes would be 1/10 of the size with the same effect.

We are developing a cart. Not a 2nd grade reading class. We can't help it if people don't follow directions. Take it up with them.

CUSTOM_UK wrote:

Qphoria wrote:The only bells it rings are "time to bring the crazies back to the looney bin".

The only 'crazies' are the clowns that bring out new versions that you can no longer use the older themes with.

Rather than focusing on what other cart producers are doing, why not strive to be different? Otherwise you just never differentiate yourself from all the other open source solutions out there and you just become the poor man's alternative to the likes of Zen Cart.

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Thank you for you assistance Moggin.

You can always use osCommerce, where there is just one default look and no template system at all.
I think we should use that with OpenCart as well so there would be, finally, an end to the whole "template" discussion.
A unisex, one size fits all, solution

Qphoria wrote:

CUSTOM_UK wrote:If followed correctly, any custom themes made for 1.4.0 should work all the way through 1.4.9

I think much of the confusion as regards compatability, comes when folks look on the sites of commercial theme vendors and they read things like 'for version 1.47 only'.

Contrary to whatever folks may think, I am not 'taking a poke' at OpenCart as I still think it presents one of the best open source solutions available.

The fact that someone has implemented OpenCart as a paid Joomla extension (JH Shop) may mean integrating themes through Joomla could be a possibility, but sadly to get the evaluation copy you need to have a twitter account and send a 'tweet' to someone on your list to get access to it.

Incidentally if it helps anybody, I have come across a free template designer for OpenCart at starintek.com Whilst it doesn't work with the latest version of OpenCart, it may give you an idea of which code elements to play with.

This is my first post ever on an open source forum or even a software forum for that matter. I can hear the groans. From the perspective of a very green newbie who is spending time every night for hours reading and learning, I had to make a comment after reading this post.

We all have skills. Because I'm not a programmer and have never used any sort of open source software, I'm not crazy or a 2nd grader - not that you were directing those comments at anyone in particular. But as a person that really wants to use this software and very green, they were off-putting. I am reading, non-techies do read. It took WEEKS of reading to even find a stand alone e-commerce software that didn't require using the company also as a hosting site and to even discover the words open source. A month ago I couldn't have even uttered that sentence.

Now that I've found the words, the research goes on full force and I have a massive page of notes on every software I've found so far. Comparing them and noting all pros and cons. I do have a blog and have played a little with the HTML code there, moving photos around or centering text. That's the extent of my current ability - though I'm quite capable of learning and reading doc.

I said all that to say this... Highest on my list, besides stability, was ease of use for a non-technical person, documentation to help me become more technical, a place to ask questions and god forbid nice templates. True making templates might be the easiest thing in the world. I still have much to learn.

But when I go to a site that brags about how awesome all their templates are, I have to say I'm tempted by "pretty colors". Childish, maybe? Looking at the overwhelming amount of things I have to learn and read to get a site going (like even learning the hosting sites software etc), having a place to go to just pick out some pre-defined themes seems the easy choice.

I'm not going to make the easy choice though, I want to make the smart choice. Imagine having to literally look up a dozen words just to get through the font page of a software company site that you want to use? It's exhausting, but I know a lot of acronyms now for sure!

But I found this thread and feel that with the links provided here I should be able to find templates if I'm not happy with the one provided. I'd love to give a go at customizing the one that comes with the software, but realize as an organic gardener and herbalist, I only have about 2 months this winter for learning. After that I have to get back to my job which is mostly outside.

I am very impressed that people do this. Write software and give it away for free (as in freedom and as in beer) - that's a new concept for me too.

I hope that by going open source I'm not biting off more than I can chew. But I like the concept of a software community and hope one day I could actually contribute. I have an idea of exactly what I want the site to look like, lets just see if I can do it.

I have a lot of questions, but believe in doing a lot of research first before opening my mouth and wasting the time of others. So like every night, I'm off to read and will hopefully cross off at least two more questions tonight.

I'm thinking, maybe the whole topic of themes (or a lack thereof) comes up so much is because OpenCart themes are not really that easy to edit for a person that has no HTML or CSS experience (lol, and don't let my screen name fool you, I can at least open up a text editor and modify some HTML and CSS here or there! )

I came to this conclusion when I started using MyBB forums. I don't know if anyone else uses their forum software, but the theme modifications section of the admin panel is just a breeze. It is VERY intuitive and makes editing themes so simple. I thought to myself, "God, what if OpenCart had this in their admin panel too, it would be SO much easier to edit certain aspects of the theme".

I don't know guys, but from what I can tell the only way to edit current OpenCart themes is to power up the ole text editor, go in and search for whatever it is you want to modify, change it, then FTP the new file back to the server, then click on refresh in your browser to see the change... For some of you that might seem like a breeze (as it has become with me in the short time i've been doing it), but to a newcomer it's probably not.

There's no question that not everyone is going to be 100% happy with every single theme out there for OpenCart. It doesn't matter if it's free or paid. People change their minds as much as they change their underwear and the theme I like today might not be the theme I like tomorrow. I think what people are looking for is just the ability to change certain aspects of the theme A) easily, B) quickly, and C) intuitively, all of which is not really the way it is now.

But I do think Q mentioned something that the theme aspect of OC 1.5.0 was going to be different and maybe easier???

Oh yeah, and before I get any haters, I just wanna say that I think OpenCart is the best Open Source shopping cart out there, and pretty much every other aspect of it is so much nicer and easier than other open source shopping carts (and some paid ones too). I just think the theme modifications could be made a bit easier (a.k.a make it like MyBB forums).

HTMLCSSNoob wrote:Oh yeah, and before I get any haters, I just wanna say that I think OpenCart is the best Open Source shopping cart out there, and pretty much every other aspect of it is so much nicer and easier than other open source shopping carts (and some paid ones too). I just think the theme modifications could be made a bit easier (a.k.a make it like MyBB forums).

actually I hadn't ever used mybb forums so I ran over to opensourcecms and looked at the demo, and basically the difference is that you edit the theme in the admin instead of files. I don't really understand how that is so much easier. to me trying to look at it in a white box in the admin is much more difficult than looking at it in a decent editor. I honestly think if a person can't grasp the concept of ftp then they really shouldn't be mucking about with html or css either.

quntmphscs wrote:This is my first post ever on an open source forum or even a software forum for that matter. I can hear the groans.

That's just my stomach... I'm hungry!

Xsecrets wrote:actually I hadn't ever used mybb forums so I ran over to opensourcecms and looked at the demo, and basically the difference is that you edit the theme in the admin instead of files. I don't really understand how that is so much easier. To me trying to look at it in a white box in the admin is much more difficult than looking at it in a decent editor.

It's easier for a few reasons in my opinion.

1.) You don't have to use 2 pieces of 3rd party software (text editor and FTP client) to edit the files, you can just do it directly form the admin panel.
2.) The admin panel does a better job at breaking down the CSS into easier to read sections.
3.) I can just edit the CSS in the admin and click on save to change something. With a text editor I have to download using an FTP client, change, and re-upload the stylesheet every time I want to make a change. I think the admin is faster personally.

Xsecrets wrote:I honestly think if a person can't grasp the concept of ftp then they really shouldn't be mucking about with html or css either.

Well I think anyone that uses OpenCart would have to know how to use FTP as I don't believe you can install OpenCart through Fantastico (at least not from my cPanel anyway). My point is that why should a person have to continue to use an FTP client and text editor to modify the theme's stylesheets? You can do almost everything else in the admin panel now, why not add theme modifications to the list?

HTMLCSSNoob wrote:
Well I think anyone that uses OpenCart would have to know how to use FTP as I don't believe you can install OpenCart through Fantastico (at least not from my cPanel anyway). My point is that why should a person have to continue to use an FTP client and text editor to modify the theme's stylesheets? You can do almost everything else in the admin panel now, why not add theme modifications to the list?

well the #1 reason is that it would mean moving all that to the db which Daniel doesn't want to do, and there are some good reasons for it. And to me it would just make things harder, because I would still use my ide which means I would have to copy the code and paste it into my text editor and then copy it back into the admin. Once you use a decent editor with syntax highlighting code folding etc it becomes painful to try to mess with stuff in a text area on a website. As far as the css goes one of the best things about css is that it allows you to make changes universally, if you are going to break it up into sections for every section of the site you might as well just use inline styles.

HTMLCSSNoob wrote:But I do think Q mentioned something that the theme aspect of OC 1.5.0 was going to be different and maybe easier???

Yes!

quntmphscs wrote:.....Highest on my list, besides stability, was ease of use for a non-technical person, documentation to help me become more technical, a place to ask questions and god forbid nice templates. True making templates might be the easiest thing in the world. I still have much to learn.
.....
I'm not going to make the easy choice though, I want to make the smart choice..

Welcome quntmphscs - you're in the right place.
Opencart is a smart choice. It's just won first runner-up in the Packt Open Source ecommerce awards. It's popular, and easy enough for anyone willing to learn. I spent 3 years trying other ecommerce solutions, before arriving here -so I'm a bit biased
Look forward to seeing your shop.
PS: somebody feed Qphoria - we need him for coding!

Running a shopping cart is like running a business. If you want it to be successfully, you must invest first. I believe templates should be customized designed and that's not a big of a deal. The default template for OpenCart is great. However, I'm hired someone to customize design it to meet my business needs.

The hard part is to get functionality to work properly. I hope we will see it in 1.5.0 as more functions will be added.

I highly recommend to setup a team of users to TEST all modules that are being submitted on Extensions page. In order to eliminate broken ones, or some kind of filter system to improve the overall community.

I just wanna say I'm using the free theme Cleaner By Default and it is so nicely commented that it makes editing it really simple. For some reason I just find it easier to edit than the stock default theme. For anyone looking for a nice theme, I would highly recommend that one...and it's FREE!