Discussion: "choose your own price" extensions

I see too many paid modules, kind of defies the open-source concept... it is sad

openAndrew wrote:I see too many paid modules, kind of defies the open-source concept... it is sad

Shouldn't that mean that products you sell in your online store should be free too since you're selling using an opensource cart? I always find that argument kind of funny..."I want to make money from my online business...but I refuse to pay for extra features that can help my store"

Just my 2 cents...

Personally, I'd love it if more developers would take a "choose your own price" approach. If something is really good, I for one would support it with my dollars. Maybe I think it's worth $35, maybe only $10. Maybe the only way I will ever pay for something is if I can try it out first, unrestricted and totally free. Sure, there's always going to be leaches, but I sell music (and other merchandise) for independent bands in my store, and in certain cases this is exactly how we sell live digital recordings. It's just amazing how many people will leave a dollar or two, and even more amazing how many will hand over $10 - $20. And for those that are downloading for free, well, they're still helping to spread the music faster and further. And who knows, maybe they'll be so won over some day that their conscience is telling them to leave a few dollars... Karma is a powerful thing if you ask me, I certainly wouldn't underestimate it.

Certainly an interesting approach that's for sure. I've no issue with people trying out my mods before buying, which is why I have a demo store. However, I wouldn't really give people code to test without a certain amount of trust between me and the person. As for paying what people think something is worth, people always have the option to contact a developer and say "I'd pay this for your mod if you're interested" and see what they say. Granted it's not the $2 approach with micropayments, but it's something some devs may be interested in

TraderDan wrote:Just my 2 cents...

Personally, I'd love it if more developers would take a "choose your own price" approach. If something is really good, I for one would support it with my dollars. Maybe I think it's worth $35, maybe only $10. Maybe the only way I will ever pay for something is if I can try it out first, unrestricted and totally free. Sure, there's always going to be leaches, but I sell music (and other merchandise) for independent bands in my store, and in certain cases this is exactly how we sell live digital recordings. It's just amazing how many people will leave a dollar or two, and even more amazing how many will hand over $10 - $20. And for those that are downloading for free, well, they're still helping to spread the music faster and further. And who knows, maybe they'll be so won over some day that their conscience is telling them to leave a few dollars... Karma is a powerful thing if you ask me, I certainly wouldn't underestimate it.

Everyone get's to drink from the same cup here. You aren't any different nor will you be
It's very simple. Never purchase an extension that does not have a demo of some type + good reviews. It also helps if you know the individuals reputation. There are a handful of developers that are floating around that I know personally do quality work. Jay, Justin, and Jonathan are 3 of them. I can promise you one thing though, no one that has a brain is going to offer a bunch of free extensions with the mindset that I will eventually have people just "GIVE ME MONEY ". This is not how the "laws of attraction function." This to me is not wise at all. If you develop QUALITY SOFTWARE, people are going to pay you what you are worth no matter what the cost and you will reap the benefits in the long run. If you have a reputation for offering free extensions people are going to EXPECT THIS OF YOU, "all of the time". I offer just about all of my extensions for free because well, I don't need the money. Others that work for Open Cart Extensions work "hard" and only wish to reap the rewards of hard work which by the way "is karma as well." Others just simply want to "make" money and this is the point. Open Cart is a thriving business. The software is free. This does "not" sentence the extensions as needing to be free as well.

avvici wrote:It's very simple. Never purchase an extension that does not have a demo of some type + good reviews. It also helps if you know the individuals reputation. There are a handful of developers that are floating around that I know personally do quality work. Jay, Justin, and Jonathan are 3 of them.

I generally agree. So far I have not made any extension purchases without being able to really see it in action first, that's a no-brainer in my book. As for reputable developers, yes of course, getting know people helps and i already have gotten to know two talented and gracious programmers that have helped me out (an otherwise total stranger) out of the kindness of their heart. And in addition to singing their praises, I have PayPal'd them small tokens of appreciation to further show my gratitude.

avvici wrote:I can promise you one thing though, no one that has a brain is going to offer a bunch of free extensions with the mindset that I will eventually have people just "GIVE ME MONEY ". I offer just about all of my extensions for free because well, I don't need the money.

Of course people are free to set a price for their hard work or just give it away if they're so inclined, I'm not making any judgments either way. But for those like yourself who do in fact give your code away, there's absolutely nothing lost in offering a choose-your-own-"price" payment option, or "contribution" or "donation", or however you would choose to word it. That's great if you don't need the money, but perhaps you could find a cause that you care about to donate all your proceeds to, or... simply refuse to have dollars and cents ever enter into the conversation and just continue to give it all away. I certainly respect a person's right to choose, and I greatly admire those that are willing and able to give without asking for anything in return, but all I ever said in my previous post was, "Personally, I'd love it if more developers would..."

avvici wrote:You aren't any different nor will you be

Not really sure how my comments elicited this kind of response as it feels rather jaded and personal, but you're entitled to your own opinions like everyone else. I'm not so concerned with being "different" so much as being the best version of myself I can be. And that philosophy extends to my personal relationships, my business ventures, and virtually every other facet of life. In some cases, we give our hard earned work away for free, but we include an option to pay if the person wants. This isn't particularly radical, new, or really any different than a lot of others who have already done something like this, it's just our choice to do so, plain and simple. I happen to really like it for a lot of reasons that I won't get into here, and I envision doing more of it in the future. If I manage to develop a useful OC extension some day, you can bet that it'll be free with an option to pay. Label that whatever you like... different, dumb, unoriginal, or a total waste of time... but in the end it'll always come down to the same thing, my right to choose.

Also I forgot to mention, I have contributed a number of free mods to the community over the past 2 years. During that time, not one person has offered to donate even $5 as a thanks for them. My "Google Base Improved" mod was a big hit, I had well over 1000 people download and use it on their sites. I offered free support to those that had issues, and after approx 12 months, not one donation and probably less than 1% even said thanks. To me that's a little disheartening considering all the sites it helped and the time I spent making and maintaining it. I've also helped a lot of people on the forums, on Stack Overflow, and on IRC all free of charge during my spare time. With doing all this, probably racking up thousands of hours, I haven't received any donations for that either. While I understand where you're coming from, the truth is people generally don't pay if they can get something for free. Personally I would rather offer my code at a cost and see who wants it. You'll find that paid mods are better supported and maintained as well, as it's in the interest of the developer to keep customers happy and add features to get new ones

Oh, and I am also a little unsure as to why avvici put that last quote as well

Not jaded, or personal. I didn't mean for it to come across that way. I just take the direct approach when I communicate. Trust me, I get where you are coming from, I do. But the fact is that it doesn't matter where we are coming from. Some things "are". It's the "way it is." Treat the Open Cart Extension Shop and how it operates like Gravity, it's not going anywhere...nor is it changing and we are all effected by it lol. No one is shooting down your idea in fact it's interesting. FYI, nothing is "free" with an option to pay. That would be called a "donation." How nice it would be to walk in to a Best Buy to find 50" Samsung LED TV's for free "with an option to pay."

Jay & avvici-

I hear you both loud and clear, and Jay, I can totally understand where you're coming from when you say you're disheartened by the lack of donations in the past. What I have found in our experiences so far vending digital downloads at any price a fan/customer chooses, is that yes, there are certainly many that will gladly snatch up everything they can get for free. But when the option is put in front of their face and they're forced to make a choice before they can proceed with the check out-- and avvici, "FREE" can and is definitely an option --it's amazing how many people will still make the choice to leave something. I can only imagine that if you left it entirely up to the customer to donate at will after the fact, you're not going to see a lot in return for all your hard work. Therefore I have to conclude that part of the success we've seen so far has hinged on requiring a customer to make a conscious decision before they can proceed with the checkout/download.

In my own experiences so far vending music downloads, I've witnessed repeat customers who have in fact come back for more, only instead of choosing the FREE option like they did the first time, they will actually leave a payment. So in other words, I've actually seen individual customers change their behavior in a way that we could only hope for. In addition to forcing the choice during checkout, I think at the very core of all the success we've seen so far is the strength of the underlying community, or in the case with the musicians I vend for, their fanbases. These are people who genuinely want to support these artists, and they are generally happy to leave a few dollars for a product they really love. From what I can tell so far, the OC community is pretty damn amazing and there are a lot of talented, devoted, supportive and appreciative people here. All I'm suggesting is that if this model were a pricing option for developers looking to sell their extensions, you guys might be pleasantly surprised at the kind of monetary support AND increase in downloads you'd see in return.

I realize the official OC extension store doesn't offer this kind of option for developers to sell, but who knows, if this is a concept that intrigues enough developers and gets the attention of the higher-ups, maybe they will consider adding the option at some point in the future. It's all just food for thought, I had no intention of making a big pitch for it, or in any way insisting that it's something that must happen. I certainly didn't take any comments personally, so no worries avvici, and I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers either. If the idea catches on, great, I could definitely see it working for some. If not, I think it's great that you guys could at least see my point of view and were interested enough to talk about it.

And finally, I apologize if I hijacked this thread and went way off-topic... that was never my intent.

TraderDan wrote:Jay & avvici-

I hear you both loud and clear, and Jay, I can totally understand where you're coming from when you say you're disheartened by the lack of donations in the past. What I have found in our experiences so far vending digital downloads at any price a fan/customer chooses, is that yes, there are certainly many that will gladly snatch up everything they can get for free. But when the option is put in front of their face and they're forced to make a choice before they can proceed with the check out-- and avvici, "FREE" can and is definitely an option --it's amazing how many people will still make the choice to leave something. I can only imagine that if you left it entirely up to the customer to donate at will after the fact, you're not going to see a lot in return for all your hard work. Therefore I have to conclude that part of the success we've seen so far has hinged on requiring a customer to make a conscious decision before they can proceed with the checkout/download.

In my own experiences so far vending music downloads, I've witnessed repeat customers who have in fact come back for more, only instead of choosing the FREE option like they did the first time, they will actually leave a payment. So in other words, I've actually seen individual customers change their behavior in a way that we could only hope for. In addition to forcing the choice during checkout, I think at the very core of all the success we've seen so far is the strength of the underlying community, or in the case with the musicians I vend for, their fanbases. These are people who genuinely want to support these artists, and they are generally happy to leave a few dollars for a product they really love. From what I can tell so far, the OC community is pretty damn amazing and there are a lot of talented, devoted, supportive and appreciative people here. All I'm suggesting is that if this model were a pricing option for developers looking to sell their extensions, you guys might be pleasantly surprised at the kind of monetary support AND increase in downloads you'd see in return.

I realize the official OC extension store doesn't offer this kind of option for developers to sell, but who knows, if this is a concept that intrigues enough developers and gets the attention of the higher-ups, maybe they will consider adding the option at some point in the future. It's all just food for thought, I had no intention of making a big pitch for it, or in any way insisting that it's something that must happen. I certainly didn't take any comments personally, so no worries avvici, and I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers either. If the idea catches on, great, I could definitely see it working for some. If not, I think it's great that you guys could at least see my point of view and were interested enough to talk about it.

And finally, I apologize if I hijacked this thread and went way off-topic... that was never my intent.

This business model you speak of perhaps might work for some but I have 3 mouths to feed, a mortgage, and other things that rely on a constant steady income. My extensions...some are free and some are commercial. All have a purpose. If you can show me statistically how "hoping that karma will pay my bills through means of people leaving a buck here and there as a sign of gratitude" then I will look good and hard at it. The current OC model works fine. Everyone makes money, and people get what they asked for. If they didn't then it is dealt with. Customer support issues will be addressed soon within the OC extension store because yes...there does need to be better support as a requirement.

samolesong76 wrote:This business model you speak of perhaps might work for some but I have 3 mouths to feed, a mortgage, and other things that rely on a constant steady income. My extensions...some are free and some are commercial. All have a purpose. If you can show me statistically how "hoping that karma will pay my bills through means of people leaving a buck here and there as a sign of gratitude" then I will look good and hard at it. The current OC model works fine. Everyone makes money, and people get what they asked for. If they didn't then it is dealt with. Customer support issues will be addressed soon within the OC extension store because yes...there does need to be better support as a requirement.

The only thing I've suggested here is that this could be a nice pricing OPTION for some developers, should they be so inclined, particularly those who might offer up an extension for free in the first place. I never claimed that "karma would pay your bills," nor did I advocate that anyone interested in setting fixed prices give up their right to do so.

You on the other hand lead off by saying, "This business model you speak of perhaps might work for some..." Exactly. And put simply, I believe in CHOICE, as I'm sure most here do. I also believe that a healthy exchange of ideas is paramount to progress. And it is from my own personal experiences in selling that I have concluded that a choose-your-own-price product option CAN work surprisingly well, especially when the expectation was to give it away from the start. Look, I'm fine with you not being interested in the idea for yourself, but would you think it fair to deny others of such an option if enough of them voiced their interest in giving it a try?

So the ultimate question (I think) should be framed as this:

If you had the OPTION to include a name-your-own-price model for a mod/extension you were otherwise going to give away for free, would you be intrigued enough to give it whirl? After all, what would you have to lose?

samolesong76 wrote:

TraderDan wrote:Jay & avvici-

I hear you both loud and clear, and Jay, I can totally understand where you're coming from when you say you're disheartened by the lack of donations in the past. What I have found in our experiences so far vending digital downloads at any price a fan/customer chooses, is that yes, there are certainly many that will gladly snatch up everything they can get for free. But when the option is put in front of their face and they're forced to make a choice before they can proceed with the check out-- and avvici, "FREE" can and is definitely an option --it's amazing how many people will still make the choice to leave something. I can only imagine that if you left it entirely up to the customer to donate at will after the fact, you're not going to see a lot in return for all your hard work. Therefore I have to conclude that part of the success we've seen so far has hinged on requiring a customer to make a conscious decision before they can proceed with the checkout/download.

In my own experiences so far vending music downloads, I've witnessed repeat customers who have in fact come back for more, only instead of choosing the FREE option like they did the first time, they will actually leave a payment. So in other words, I've actually seen individual customers change their behavior in a way that we could only hope for. In addition to forcing the choice during checkout, I think at the very core of all the success we've seen so far is the strength of the underlying community, or in the case with the musicians I vend for, their fanbases. These are people who genuinely want to support these artists, and they are generally happy to leave a few dollars for a product they really love. From what I can tell so far, the OC community is pretty damn amazing and there are a lot of talented, devoted, supportive and appreciative people here. All I'm suggesting is that if this model were a pricing option for developers looking to sell their extensions, you guys might be pleasantly surprised at the kind of monetary support AND increase in downloads you'd see in return.

I realize the official OC extension store doesn't offer this kind of option for developers to sell, but who knows, if this is a concept that intrigues enough developers and gets the attention of the higher-ups, maybe they will consider adding the option at some point in the future. It's all just food for thought, I had no intention of making a big pitch for it, or in any way insisting that it's something that must happen. I certainly didn't take any comments personally, so no worries avvici, and I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers either. If the idea catches on, great, I could definitely see it working for some. If not, I think it's great that you guys could at least see my point of view and were interested enough to talk about it.

And finally, I apologize if I hijacked this thread and went way off-topic... that was never my intent.

This business model you speak of perhaps might work for some but I have 3 mouths to feed, a mortgage, and other things that rely on a constant steady income. My extensions...some are free and some are commercial. All have a purpose. If you can show me statistically how "hoping that karma will pay my bills through means of people leaving a buck here and there as a sign of gratitude" then I will look good and hard at it. The current OC model works fine. Everyone makes money, and people get what they asked for. If they didn't then it is dealt with. Customer support issues will be addressed soon within the OC extension store because yes...there does need to be better support as a requirement.

This isn't a "business model". It was merely an idea expressed that involved the current way extensions are sold on Open Cart. While many may not agree with the idea I am sure there are some that will understand especially those that offer extensions for free. Companies all around the world every day offer sales, discounts, limited time offers, half off here half off there to entice people and to create a good vibe. We must always take care of our customers and let them know that we care ...and that we have them in our best interest. People only know what you show them or teach them anyway. This would have to be a highly individualized process for each to consider but by no means a requirement. I actually like the idea of the OPTION TO DONATE/PAY but you have to be careful with that because I can see it leading to personalities over principles and the two do not mix at all.