OpenCart Community

I'm new ot OC (4 days), and ecommerce in general. I looked around for 2 weeks prior to choosing OC as a shopping cart software. One of the reasons that i didn't go with Magento is because there forums seemed filled with spam from vendors pushing their own products and starting threads than using alias to answer themselves. The OC forums didn't seem so bad about this, but over the past days of looking threw and buying extensions from the extension shops I can see this has some pretty big flaws, and only time and experience will enable new users of OC to make the best choices when making a purchase, even then it might be somewhat of a crap shoot. The free version of the script is awesome, then the area where OC can actually generate revenues they seem to do a rather sloppy job of it, and this tarnishes the reputation of the product as well as earning less money for OC, and extension makers.

So here are some annoying things i found out in the last day or 2 that really take away from an otherwise great free shopping cart system. Most of these will also lead to less sales for makers of extensions in the long run because its not a system that users can trust or make informed buying decisions.

- Extension makers can delete comments - This makes the system open to a lot of manipulation and basically all the sellers can keep the good and remove the bad. I was using comments as a resource to make buying decisions (until today) witch was my own ignorance, i'll bet many use this for years and dont know about the comment deletion option extension makers have. This is such a bad idea on so many levels. Maybe its unfair for extension makers to have there reps unfairly tarnished by false comments left by there competitors or crazy people but its no where near as important as giving the general public (the buyers) accurate ways to make a buy decision. I suggest they allow makers to only delete comments from (non buyers) and give them no way to remove comments from people that spend money on the product. Perhaps they could allow sellers the option to remove buyers comments if the REFUND 100% of purchase price. Anyway this web store could be improved in many ways that both help sell more products, and to give buyers a way to make educated choices about what to buy instead of a crap shoot. From what i can see the only thing extension buyers should use to make a buying decision is the STAR ratings witch can only be done if somebody buys the product. Even this might have a flaw.

- Comment manipulation - Its pretty easy to see extension makers are posting a bunch of fake comments about there own products. I can find sometimes 10 or so people praising an extension that only has 1 vote with stars. I guess the buyers were not so busy they couldn't write a custom comment, but cant click a simple star button.

- Star rating loophole? - I dont know if this is possible, but couldn't a maker of an extension put it into the marketplace for a price of say $1, then have multiple friends/family buy it, rate it, then up the price to $100 and fool the masses into thinking its a good product because it must be xx number of people spent $100 and gave it stars. Maybe somebody can confirm if this is possible.

- Cant Buy multiple extensions - I dont mind spending money on extensions and there are probably many like me, this shopping cart saves me a lot of money over using my own developer making custom apps so even if i buy 10 or 20 extensions the cost of each site i produce will still be far less than a custom app, so i made a list and went to buy a bunch of them all at one time, but I CANT, they dont have a shopping cart to allow me to buy more than 1 extension at the same time. This is throwing money away and highly annoying. I bought 5 extensions last night of about 10 or 15 i intended to purchase, but got fed up with going to fill out my CC info for each extension i wanted. This is so primitive and leads to less money earned by everybody involved.

- Product download waiting time - Each time i have ordered an extension over the past few days I had to wait a few hours to be able to download it. I understand there are fraud measures in place, but the rest of the internet world, (including many 1 man operations) figure out how to give instant access to goods, but this relatively big site cannot. I have bought digital products all over the place and only in rare cases (some 1 man type operations) did I have to wait for them to actually manually approve my purchase instead of getting access instantly. Bottom line is this can be improved a lot. I think a simple credit system would be much better to make extension purchases because id imagine almost every person that purchases at least 1 extension will purchase more than 1 and this would solve the buying multiple extension issue as well (ala code canyon). Heck even if OC doesn't have the budget to develop a good commercial extension area they have a lot of developers making these extensions that would be happy to help out, or perhaps help build it in exchange for future featured ad placement or some barter arrangement. Improving this system is good for everybody except the scammers and low life's that artificially inflate product value and fool buyers into buying a product that is not as good as it would seem. This also helps the reputation and future of OC and everybody making products for the platform..

Im going to stick with this platform because im happy with my theme, and the free OC store script, but disappointed in how the extension shop works, and the way sellers can manipulate and fool buyers if they want to. This also hurts the legit sellers who might not want to spend time falsely inflating how good there products are by being creeps.

- Extension makers can delete comments - This makes the system open to a lot of manipulation and basically all the sellers can keep the good and remove the bad. I was using comments as a resource to make buying decisions (until today) witch was my own ignorance, i'll bet many use this for years and dont know about the comment deletion option extension makers have. This is such a bad idea on so many levels. Maybe its unfair for extension makers to have there reps unfairly tarnished by false comments left by there competitors or crazy people but its no where near as important as giving the general public (the buyers) accurate ways to make a buy decision. I suggest they allow makers to only delete comments from (non buyers) and give them no way to remove comments from people that spend money on the product. Perhaps they could allow sellers the option to remove buyers comments if the REFUND 100% of purchase price. Anyway this web store could be improved in many ways that both help sell more products, and to give buyers a way to make educated choices about what to buy instead of a crap shoot. From what i can see the only thing extension buyers should use to make a buying decision is the STAR ratings witch can only be done if somebody buys the product. Even this might have a flaw.

Had been debated somewhere in the forums. You need to do a search. Developers need the delete function to keep their extensions clean and updated. Outdated comments referring to previous versions of their extensions lies everywhere, and for someone to buy it, they have to browse through hundreds of comments. Most developers clean up their comments now. Support request is to be handled out of the comments section too.

- Star rating loophole? - I dont know if this is possible, but couldn't a maker of an extension put it into the marketplace for a price of say $1, then have multiple friends/family buy it, rate it, then up the price to $100 and fool the masses into thinking its a good product because it must be xx number of people spent $100 and gave it stars. Maybe somebody can confirm if this is possible.

Minimum selling price is $10. I wouldn't spend such a money to do that. I doubt anyone will. Not worth the time and money.

- Product download waiting time - Each time i have ordered an extension over the past few days I had to wait a few hours to be able to download it. I understand there are fraud measures in place, but the rest of the internet world, (including many 1 man operations) figure out how to give instant access to goods, but this relatively big site cannot. I have bought digital products all over the place and only in rare cases (some 1 man type operations) did I have to wait for them to actually manually approve my purchase instead of getting access instantly. Bottom line is this can be improved a lot. I think a simple credit system would be much better to make extension purchases because id imagine almost every person that purchases at least 1 extension will purchase more than 1 and this would solve the buying multiple extension issue as well (ala code canyon). Heck even if OC doesn't have the budget to develop a good commercial extension area they have a lot of developers making these extensions that would be happy to help out, or perhaps help build it in exchange for future featured ad placement or some barter arrangement. Improving this system is good for everybody except the scammers and low life's that artificially inflate product value and fool buyers into buying a product that is not as good as it would seem. This also helps the reputation and future of OC and everybody making products for the platform..

They have a fraud prevention system to reduce frauds. It helps greatly to us developers to reduce our lost and also charge backs on OpenCart. The look through their orders daily, so a couple of hours of wait is worth it.

I wouldn't worry too much about buying a lot of extensions right away either. Only using opencart for 4 days isn't a lot of time to work with the core system before you start modifyng it. I made that mistake early on too and now have 4-5 extensions I paid for, but discovered I do not really need and don't use. Wasted probably $80-$100 on them.

I always recommend using the core opencart system for a month or 2 before you start modifying it unless there is something your particular product type absolutely must have.

As to your issues with the extension store, yes, it has some weaknesses but I don't think most of what you mention are a big worry. Do a search in the forums too - most developers start a thread when they release a new one and you can often see any issues with it in the forums which they cannot delete. (btw, I have bought more than 1 extension at a time - just add one to your cart and hit your back button to add another. Unless they've changed it, that works fine).

Even if they're not vital, I think all of the original poster's ideas would be good to implement. They're all things I have on my own list for OpenCartX, once I get the time. The only one that is difficult is the fraud approval process -- I understand completely why Daniel has to do this, since digital good marketplaces are targets for fraud due to access to software usually being granted immediately. Even with the best fraud filters, some still slip through or are mismarked, so a manual review process is necessary.

- Cant Buy multiple extensions - I dont mind spending money on extensions and there are probably many like me, this shopping cart saves me a lot of money over using my own developer making custom apps so even if i buy 10 or 20 extensions the cost of each site i produce will still be far less than a custom app, so i made a list and went to buy a bunch of them all at one time, but I CANT, they dont have a shopping cart to allow me to buy more than 1 extension at the same time. This is throwing money away and highly annoying. I bought 5 extensions last night of about 10 or 15 i intended to purchase, but got fed up with going to fill out my CC info for each extension i wanted. This is so primitive and leads to less money earned by everybody involved.

I set the system like this on purpose after a friend who sold templates had all of them bought on a stolen credit card then uploaded them to a torrent site. it made his project very popular though.

sure they are good points but i don't have time for a lot of it. maybe after the next release.

Thanks for the replies, was expecting some hostility to my post, happy there wasn't any.

Some of my opinions would probably change a lot if i knew Daniel was pretty much short handed, or even doing all development for the script/site by himself, So If its gotta be you that does this stuff I definitely understand why some items cant be done as quickly, but I think money is being left on the table that might help pay for staff to do the improvements. Looks like 1 of the members here built his own store to basically compete somewhat with the opencart extension store, and he's probably not doing this for the fun of it but because he see's the flaws and a money making opportunity.

Regarding the fraud, For digital products I always sold them myself so because you actually have to pay the developers maybe its more complicated for you, but the way I always looked at it those people committing fraud were never going to be customers anyway so just eat the bad payments (and developers eat it). That might not be something developers are willing to do, but i think its more profitable, a credit system would also make this much easier and is probably the best solution. If nobody likes that at least try and setup something that WHITE LISTS users that have already gone threw the buying process 1,2,3 or whatever threshold you choose because im put in the "pending cue" for every purchase even though the system should already know by this point im not committing any fraud .

Had been debated somewhere in the forums. You need to do a search. Developers need the delete function to keep their extensions clean and updated. Outdated comments referring to previous versions of their extensions lies everywhere, and for someone to buy it, they have to browse through hundreds of comments. Most developers clean up their comments now. Support request is to be handled out of the comments section too.

I think the problem is some people think this is a realistic picture by looking at comments for the product, but its not, and can be manipulated into a positive spin on a product that might have many bugs, or be difficult to implement. I do not believe any extension maker should be able to delete comments from buyers at all unless they are abusive (or givin a full refunded). Anyway I figured it out yesterday this can happen so i simply use the star system as the most important factor to buy and take comments with a grain of salt.

Minimum selling price is $10. I wouldn't spend such a money to do that. I doubt anyone will. Not worth the time and money.

Wanna make a bet on this?

The $10 definitely helps but I know people would still do this, yesterday I bought an extension from a helpful guy named "jeff" selling a few highly rated extensions and because I bought 2 already he had a special and went into the market place, changed the prices of 2 items just for me, and waited till i bought them and raised them back up. That is what a successful guy with a quality product is willing to do, how far would a broke creep go?

If i got a $100 extension that i want to get the ball moving on, buying 3 or 7 or so at $10, give it 5stars, then spamming the comment area for illusion of impressed buyers, raise the price. This is what i would do if i had no ethics, heck I might do this if I had a great product also to get the ball rolling.

I wouldn't worry too much about buying a lot of extensions right away either. Only using opencart for 4 days isn't a lot of time to work with the core system before you start modifying it. I made that mistake early on too and now have 4-5 extensions I paid for, but discovered I do not really need and don't use. Wasted probably $80-$100 on them.

Yeah i gota lay off the buying and just learn the system a little bit. I guess it feels like such a bargain to get setup with all the modules and even if i bought everyone under the sun, it would still probably cost 10x less for me to get a site done and launched compared to the custom scripts I have had built for my in my last 3 projects, I really want to learn ecommerce so i can not only save money on development, but also get the sites done in a smaller time frame, 7months into my most recent and its sucking the life out of me, but i'll admit i still basically know nothing about this software, nor running an ecommerce site, sourcing products ect so that's it for the complaining and time for learning and using the software, and im looking forward to this new experience.

At the moment, I would agree with you that the stars are the best to judge a mod. However, you will still need to take note of the release date of a mod. Some mods are just newly released and you can't expect them to have plenty of stars. If they really do, it seems really suspicious

Anyway, I still like the delete function on the comments. Some guys are just so pesky, posting 'help me', expecting me to read their minds. And the end result > they forgotten to install vqmod. It's really good if we can get people to start being specific on what they need help in, then maybe we can remove the delete function

Yeah i gota lay off the buying and just learn the system a little bit. I guess it feels like such a bargain to get setup with all the modules and even if i bought everyone under the sun, it would still probably cost 10x less for me to get a site done and launched compared to the custom scripts I have had built for my in my last 3 projects, I really want to learn ecommerce so i can not only save money on development, but also get the sites done in a smaller time frame, 7months into my most recent and its sucking the life out of me, but i'll admit i still basically know nothing about this software, nor running an ecommerce site, sourcing products ect so that's it for the complaining and time for learning and using the software, and im looking forward to this new experience.

Yeah, oc has a lot less development time - I had my first store on it up and running in days. Always refining (and adding products of course), but was taking sales on it within a week. Give yourself some time and patience, and I'll sure you'll do great

captinstupid wrote:Looks like 1 of the members here built his own store to basically compete somewhat with the opencart extension store, and he's probably not doing this for the fun of it but because he see's the flaws and a money making opportunity.

If you're referring to my site: actually no, I did not build it to compete with the OpenCart store, but to be a place to find only the best extensions, from trusted developers. I'm sure Daniel will continue improving the OpenCart store as he gets time.

Personally I think there is far more needs to be done on the marketplace than the stuff being discussed.

However I would be peeved if the delete comment function is gone, as previously stated you get countless idiots posting comments like "doesnt work " etc etc when it does and the problem is normally always something they have screwed up! Plus what use is that comment anyway, it doesnt help anyone. People are very quick to comment and put 1 star, even when its their stupid mistake. They also dont understand that if they have a much changed theme then some mods may take a little tweak to get them to work properly.

Also all my mods come with a support email address for purchasers to contact me direct where Im always happy to help. So I know people havent read the instructions properly when they post a comment asking for help.

If the idiot comments are allowed to stay then it will start affecting my sales and of course Daniels commission.

I can understand the point of the comments and star ratings but people have to understand you get a lot of (pardon my French) assholes out there willing to deliberately sabotage your good work because of their own stupidity and ignorance. Its so frustrating as a developer, so a disagree that all the power should be handed to the buyer. Sellers need rights too, otherwise we will just end up with another crappy eBay style, buyer orientated site that puts sellers off.

I think if it went that way I would either withdraw the majority of my extensions or raise the prices. At least if the prices are too high it might scare the idiots away.

This may sound harsh but until you have developed a few mods and start getting these kinds of comments or worse, plus emails etc then you just dont know what people can be like. So frustrating so sellers do need some management tools. Plus the point about things that get fixed or added in later releases is also a good point, if someone comments and says I want X added to the mod and I add it, I then want to be able to delete that comment because it being there and saying they want it may put some people off buying it.

Its a difficult balance and we are selling things that some people find complex to install or use etc, of course I and every other good dev will try and make this as easy as possible for everyone. However it can cause frustrations when people cant get mods to work, and 99% of the time (from my experience) this isnt the fault of the dev, yet they are the ones that can be punished with bad reviews and comments.

I also dont think there really needs to be a cart system as most people will just buy a mod occasionally not buy loads all at once.

I made a few comments on the marketplace here for poss improvements but Im sure I could come up with some more: http://forum.opencart.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41933