No Layout in 1.3.3

I'm new to the cart business, but I've played with a few options already and I agree that opencart has a lot going for it, and that Daniel and a few others do a great job providing support.

I have to disagree with your comment though. At the start of this post, Daniel indicated what seems to be a significant change in the way layouts are manipulated, and an early reply asked for a clarification of what this all meant. However, that early post is still as cryptic to me now as it was before. Yes, some of the follow on posters could have been a bit more polite, but I can understand their frustration if they think a lot of extra work is now needed to redo their own work.

As someone just starting to build a couple of OpenCart sites, and thus needing to think about layout, it would be good to know how to make changes that will be 1.3.3 compatible now.

So kudos to Daniel and all those who are helping to make this a great cart, but please understand their are those who are just starting with the program who could use more clarity and support.

(And if anyone wants to explain the implications of Daniel's original post, that would still be very helpful to me)

I agree that OpenCart seems to be the best option, and plan to use it (and donate) for several sites.
But, I haven't started work at all with OpenCart, because I know that whatever work I do will be wasted, due to some mysterious "No Layout" in the next version .

Obviously I am not prepared to start work with OC 1.3.2 if I have to throw my work away halfway through and start my templates again. I can't find out anything about this "layout" (as regarding OC terminoloy), and no-one seems to know anything about it. So I will assume it does greatly affect things on a core level.

I anticipate beginning work with OC 1.3.3, whenever that arrives, until then I'll wait!

Steve there is patches and solutions for 1.3.2 allowing you to do everything you want Im sure.

Qphoria is working on Google Checkout if that is your main thing.

Anyway why not develop for 1.3.2 who knows when 1.3.3 will come out.....well I guess atleast one person does? Cram your brain with how to template 1.3.2 and 1.3.3 Im sure your brain can take it!

ThePath wrote:Steve there is patches and solutions for 1.3.2 allowing you to do everything you want Im sure.

Qphoria is working on Google Checkout if that is your main thing.

Anyway why not develop for 1.3.2 who knows when 1.3.3 will come out.....well I guess atleast one person does? Cram your brain with how to template 1.3.2 and 1.3.3 Im sure your brain can take it!

I think you misunderstand me.

I need to template and style OC to suite my clients branding. Regardless of whatever version I use I will be spending several weeks working on that . Now, if version 1.3.3 comes out halfway through me editing the templates and 'layout' , I really do not want to re-start the work I have already done (remake all templates, etc).
I specify my work and cost by the hour, I can hardly bill my client for an extra week so that I can re-do my work due to my own oversight. I already know that there is a new version coming that will have "no layout" (whatever this means), so it is safest and cheapest for me to simply postpone my clients job until I can find out what "no layout" means.

Again, this is not about features which are / are not in the current version - it is about knowing what "no layout" means for my specification and billing.

I have no idea what "no layout" might be, but one thing is for sure, if I ignore it it surely will bite me in the arse and cause me to double my workload.

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edit :
of course, I could use the 1.3.2 version and it would function perfectly, but I have an ongoing relationship with the client and they value future-proofing highly, as do I.
1.3.2 is certainly excellent, but I bet that 1.4 will be more compatible with 1.3.3. that will with 1.3.2

As Daniel has stated that 1.3.3 is not compatible with 1.3.2, then I prefer to wait until the branching has taken place. Why commit to something I know is already deprecated?

1.3.2 is very stable.

if it covers all your needs then use 1.3.2.

I'm trying to release 1.3.3 tonight but i need time to write all the upgrade instructions.

I thought there was no layout in 1.3.3 so will upgrades be as normal or have to modify templates?

mlavine wrote: I have to disagree with your comment though. At the start of this post, Daniel indicated what seems to be a significant change in the way layouts are manipulated, and an early reply asked for a clarification of what this all meant. However, that early post is still as cryptic to me now as it was before. Yes, some of the follow on posters could have been a bit more polite, but I can understand their frustration if they think a lot of extra work is now needed to redo their own work.

The post was cryptic, but blind panic is hardly a rational response?
Someone mentioned 2 weeks work upgrading templates - erm....don't upgrade your sites. Why would you unless there is a know security issue? Surly when you choose opencart to begin with it ticked all the boxes?

I just made a site in open cart, im not in anyway bothered by this news. For the next site I will just use to new version....why all the flapping?

steve-grant wrote: of course, I could use the 1.3.2 version and it would function perfectly, but I have an ongoing relationship with the client and they value future-proofing highly, as do I.
1.3.2 is certainly excellent, but I bet that 1.4 will be more compatible with 1.3.3. that will with 1.3.2

That is a losing thought process. 1.3.2 works.. you need a working shopping cart... done. Why ever buy windows XP when you know in 4years vista will come out? why buy vista when you know 7 is coming? What if 1.3.3 sucked like vista did? and 1.4? seriously? if a point-release doesn't work together then I would assume a new minor version would be completely different.

Worry less about what is coming and do with what you have. Aside from1.3.2 being the most stable, it also has the most available mods. 1.3.3 mods won't happen overnight. If this no layout thing is really impacting, it could take weeks/months to get it all ported. Plus if the community cries enough that its a crappy idea, it will likely be backed out.

The post was cryptic, but blind panic is hardly a rational response?

I agree, and I hope you didn't think my post was a blind panic.

I'm quite happy to get my sites up and running with 1.3.2. And I don't feel the rush to upgrade with each new version that emerges... although I also don't like to have to hard code my own bug fixes if they are going to become part of the next upgrade (but that is a side issue).

BUT, if there is a way to modify the layout/templates/etc. that would remain compatible with the next release, wouldn't that be better? As a newbie to OpenCart, I'm just trying to understanding the implications of Daniel's opening post. Maybe they are quite minor, but with only a limited knowledge of the program it is hard to judge.

Enlightenment would still be welcome

Marc

Enlightenment would still be welcome

The change isn't that drastic it just requires a fair amount of repeated code, which most people wrinkle their noses at. I understand why the change is in place and i think the change itself in its concept form is perfectly fine. However i think its simply lacking an in-between piece that allows you to have a master template file similar to layout.tpl in 1.3.2 if you wanted to have such a thing.

In 1.3.2 (if im not mistaken) your display was built in a manner something like:
Layout.tpl is loaded (this held header information etc, footer information, breadcrumbs , sidebars, and and inside of all that was a spot where it called the page specific template)
-> page specific template was loaded within layout.tpl so that just the page specific content varied, while allowing the site to maintain a uniform look. To modify the overall look for a specific page-type you had to use conditional statements within layout.tpl (BAD BAD BAD, even if its easier, it defeats the design of MVC)

in 1.3.3 each "page" template has to call all that stuff itself. You have to include the header, breadcrumbs,columns, footer within each page template. This gives you 100% layout control per page without having to use conditional statements within layout.tpl.That kind of logic should be restricted to the controller. The view should not determine what it should display, the controller should determine which view to display. His change prevented people from needing to do that.

So what daniel did was allow you to have page specific layouts w/out destroying the layout.tpl with ridiculous conditional statements in them. I just personally think he went about it in a way that causes more work then necessary. Ideally i'd imagine a system that let you select the layout template for each page type. Those layout files would resemble layout.tpl. You could create other layout files like categories.tpl and products.tpl and so on. By default all page types would use layout.tpl , but you would have the option of selecting a different layout template for each page-type. Then if you wanted to truly modify the way the page displayed, you could override the actual page template. For example lets assume I don't want to use the review portion of the product page, AND i don't want the right hand column to display on the single item page, so i'd make a -layout- file named item.tpl that doesn't have the right hand column, and i'd create a -page- template named product.tpl that did not have any review functionality. Each in their corresponding directories. The layout file item.tpl would be in and the page template that had no review functionality would be in Thus allowing me to not only change the overall LOOK of the site, but also override the default template used for product display. This would also drastically cut down on the necessary size of a custom template as by default the controller would load .tpls from the default directory UNLESS they existed in the custom template directory. Not having written a template from scratch this functionality might already exist, i've not looked. If so then its even closer to being a possibility.

Sorry for the wall of text i re-wrote it 3 times because i don't want to appear as negative towards daniel's changes because i think in regards to concept he hit the nail on the head, its just in practice it didn't play out quite as nicely.

Daniel, can I add layout.tpl yourself? What he was removed, explain please. I, as a beginner web developer does not understand the benefits of the current structure, while only drawbacks - duplicating the same code in files view/ and controller/ when the store is one that is not terrible, but when a regular basis have a relatively large number of templates to do with the very non-standard structure location information on the site - going crazy
I beg your pardon for my bad English.

To thanaa:

So where exactly would you specify in your item.tpl and product.tpl example the following:

That product.tpl is to be based upon the item.tpl instead of the default layout.tpl ?

The controller file might be a choice, but do we want to change the controller file for each different template?

Daniel, i have a request.
in the product page there is option tab by which you have the capability of changing the option according to the memory size for Ipod classic and is there any option of changing the images when we select the option in the option tab. Otherwise can you please suggest, what i should do to change the image when you select the different option in the option tab. my email id is katti.lock@gmail.com
Thanks in advance.