Post by redactuk » Sun May 26, 2024 5:29 pm

Hello

We've worked with and supported OC for many years. Over the last year we've become increasingly frustrated with the ongoing response on these forums "don't touch v4 it's not stable go with v3 instead". I get it, you want to be clear with new users that v4 still has some issues, but at the same time if people don't start adopting v4 we're never going to get those issues highlighted and hopefully resolved. So perhaps a moderator or developer could summarise what ARE these "issues" that cause everyone to suggest 'stay clear of v4'?

We've installed v4 locally and tested it, and really can't find anything 'breaking'. I also can't see anything 'breaking' on Github either. It's received a steady stream of code changes from Daniel over the last 12 months. So what I am missing, what is the holdup for the next v4 update?

Or is the main reason that OCMOD has not yet been merged? If this is the case can anyone shed any light on why this has not happened yet or when it is expected? Surely the sooner the better so that any issues with OCMOD re-introduction can be ironed out?

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Post by JNeuhoff » Sun May 26, 2024 6:22 pm

OCmod is not main reason for the slow progress. Besides, good quality extensions won't use OCmod anyway, and there was no excuse for extension authors not to port extensions to OpenCart 4. However, it is true that OpenCart 4 versions up to 4.0.2.3 simply had too many bugs, hence the recommendation was to use OpenCart 3 for live websites.

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Post by redactuk » Sun May 26, 2024 8:29 pm

Thanks for reply.

"OpenCart 4 versions up to 4.0.2.3 simply had too many bugs"

Is there any kind of summary anywhere of what the most serious of these are?
I mean what bugs are sufficiently serious in 4.0.2.3 for everyone to keep saying stay away from it?

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Post by paulfeakins » Tue May 28, 2024 11:22 pm

JNeuhoff wrote:
Sun May 26, 2024 6:22 pm
good quality extensions won't use OCmod anyway, and there was no excuse for extension authors not to port extensions to OpenCart 4.
Totally disagree, OCMOD is an excellent way to develop extensions and it is the reason many developers including ourselves haven't ported to OC4 yet.

JNeuhoff wrote:
Sun May 26, 2024 6:22 pm
However, it is true that OpenCart 4 versions up to 4.0.2.3 simply had too many bugs, hence the recommendation was to use OpenCart 3 for live websites.
It has one or two, as does most software, so this isn't the main reason.

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Post by straightlight » Wed May 29, 2024 3:11 am

redactuk wrote:
Sun May 26, 2024 8:29 pm
Thanks for reply.

"OpenCart 4 versions up to 4.0.2.3 simply had too many bugs"

Is there any kind of summary anywhere of what the most serious of these are?
I mean what bugs are sufficiently serious in 4.0.2.3 for everyone to keep saying stay away from it?
The best option is to remain up-to-date with the commit feeds from: https://www.github.com/opencart/opencart/commits repository to understand the changes that are involved on each current release.

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Post by JNeuhoff » Wed May 29, 2024 4:57 am

straightlight wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 3:11 am
... to understand the changes that are involved on each current release.
Of which there are a lot!

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Post by redactuk » Wed May 29, 2024 3:48 pm

straightlight wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 3:11 am
The best option is to remain up-to-date with the commit feeds from: https://www.github.com/opencart/opencart/commits repository to understand the changes that are involved on each current release.
I have been checking commits for over a year. This still doesn't tell me WHAT specific issues that are OUTSTANDING!

Look at the long list of commits that made up the last v3 release (and those making up the next v3 tag), a version that is considered 'stable'.

So once again, WHAT is it specifically about v4 that is left to do that causes everyone on these forums to say v4 is not stable? I'm baffled no one can give me a straight answer.

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Post by paulfeakins » Wed May 29, 2024 9:35 pm

redactuk wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 3:48 pm
So once again, WHAT is it specifically about v4 that is left to do that causes everyone on these forums to say v4 is not stable? I'm baffled no one can give me a straight answer.
The biggest one I'm aware of was an issue editing orders. I'm not sure if that's fixed now or not, but I think it's stable enough, it just doesn't have many extensions because it doesn't have OCMOD yet.

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Post by redactuk » Wed May 29, 2024 10:27 pm

paulfeakins wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 9:35 pm
The biggest one I'm aware of was an issue editing orders. I'm not sure if that's fixed now or not, but I think it's stable enough, it just doesn't have many extensions because it doesn't have OCMOD yet.
Paul, I appreciate your replies. As I suspected, what you and other developers I've spoken to privately seem to indicate is that uncertainty over OCMOD IS a big factor here. Question for you:

I appreciate this is a project very much controlled by one person - that's fine , but are there any private channels where you and other developers have indicated that the need to get the OCMOD issue resolved one way or the other really needs to happen soon? Is it even ready to be tested? Surely, even if it were merged in with some issues now it would allow Mod developers what want it to start preparing to push v4 Modules again? and if it's not ready, then can we have another v4 release soonish that we can start to migrate people to what don't require OCMOD?

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Post by JNeuhoff » Wed May 29, 2024 11:55 pm

The master branch of OpenCart (upcoming 4.1.0.0) has OCmod integrated now. You can try it out.

Though I still think we'll end with loads of poor-quality extensions again, as happened with OC 2 or OC 3.

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Post by paulfeakins » Thu May 30, 2024 6:38 pm

redactuk wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 10:27 pm
I appreciate this is a project very much controlled by one person - that's fine , but are there any private channels where you and other developers have indicated that the need to get the OCMOD issue resolved one way or the other really needs to happen soon?
I chat to Daniel on Skype sometimes, I'll mention to him now that we're waiting for OCMOD before we port our extensions to 4.

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Post by paulfeakins » Thu May 30, 2024 6:39 pm

JNeuhoff wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 11:55 pm
The master branch of OpenCart (upcoming 4.1.0.0) has OCmod integrated now. You can try it out.
We're quite keen on sticking to officially released versions.

JNeuhoff wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 11:55 pm
Though I still think we'll end with loads of poor-quality extensions again, as happened with OC 2 or OC 3.
In my view, events aren't the answer to poor quality code. Bad developers will find ways to make bad extensions with events.

Good developers will continue to make good extensions with OCMOD.

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Post by straightlight » Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:18 am

paulfeakins wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 6:39 pm
JNeuhoff wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 11:55 pm
The master branch of OpenCart (upcoming 4.1.0.0) has OCmod integrated now. You can try it out.
We're quite keen on sticking to officially released versions.

JNeuhoff wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 11:55 pm
Though I still think we'll end with loads of poor-quality extensions again, as happened with OC 2 or OC 3.
In my view, events aren't the answer to poor quality code. Bad developers will find ways to make bad extensions with events.

Good developers will continue to make good extensions with OCMOD.
Whereas good buyers may end up with bad results upon each installations after their first. That will remain to be seen with OC v4.1x releases from the time being.

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