Post by rbuckthal » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:35 am

I'm a newbe trying to understand if paypal is really supported/ready.

There is alot of discussion here, I just need help getting to the bottom.

I'm on version 0.7.9-RC4.

Things apear to work OK, except the order status on PayPal stays at 'unclaimed', and the OpenCart Order Status stays at 'Paid Unconfirmed'.

I expect the PayPal status to be 'paid' and the Order Status to be 'pending' if the PayPal account has a suffient balance to cover the order. 

From some my previous developement; it was the IPN that signaled a valid payment from PayPal.  Is this the plan for OpenCart?  If so, it is my understanding PayPal needs IPN enabled with a URL to accept the notification.  Yet, I don't see any info telling me the IPN URL to use.

Am I missing something.  Is OpenCart using another way to receive notification of payment from PayPal without IPN?

A note to the developers of the PayPal module.  It's possible that someone can pay paypal with via a bank account.  In this case, the IPN notification status is something like 'payment pending' (ie, the customer has a paypal  account, but the money has not transferred to the sellers account yet).  Usally it is a few days later that another IPN notification is sent signaling the money has transfer to the seller's account.  My point being, the seller needs to decide when payment is complete and they can ship the product; either on payment pending or payment complete.  Is there someway to tell OpenCart which one? or, another order status indicating this?
Last edited by Qphoria on Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by rbuckthal » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:02 pm

Alright, maybe I was to obscure. 

Does anyone have PayPal working correctly?  My correct, I mean that PayPal shows the payment as excepted, and OpenCart shows that PayPal has credited the sellers account.

Or, have I just missed some configuration detail?

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:07 pm

Try RC5... that has the updated paypal stuff

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Post by rbuckthal » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:31 pm

I've tried RC5.  Same problem...  PayPal show payment as 'unclaimed', opencart show 'payment pending'.

I need to enable IPN.  But to enable IPN, PayPal needs the IPN URL.  I do not know that the IPN URL is for OpenCart.  Does anyone know this.  WHAT IS THE PAYPAL IPN URL FOR OPENCART? ???

On a seperate subject; is there is only a single payment or shipping method, it should be selected by default.

Also, if the custmer has a problem with PayPal, and uses the back buttom to return to OpenCart, the shopping cart is empty?  Why?

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Post by Qphoria » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:02 am

rbuckthal wrote: I've tried RC5.  Same problem...  PayPal show payment as 'unclaimed', opencart show 'payment pending'.
What you are describing isn't a problem.
See the original paypal module was designed to "Authorize only". So it leaves all money in unclaimed state. I was going to add a configuration option in the admin menu to allow choosing which you'd rather use. Maybe I'll sneak that in.

But otherwise, everything you are doing is fine and the order sounds like it is in the correct state..
rbuckthal wrote: I need to enable IPN.  But to enable IPN, PayPal needs the IPN URL.  I do not know that the IPN URL is for OpenCart.  Does anyone know this.  WHAT IS THE PAYPAL IPN URL FOR OPENCART? ???
Try http://www.yoursite.com/index.php?contr ... n=callback

rbuckthal wrote: On a seperate subject; is there is only a single payment or shipping method, it should be selected by default.
As far as the single shipping method, yea I thought about adding this to 0.7.9
rbuckthal wrote: Also, if the custmer has a problem with PayPal, and uses the back buttom to return to OpenCart, the shopping cart is empty?  Why?
There is a "Cancel and return to store" link in paypal. That will restore the order. The back button really can't be used here. Should probably add a message to checkout that says "don't use back button". There's just no good way to handle all the problems of dealing with offsite payment processors
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Post by rbuckthal » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:19 pm

I added the IPN call-back as you suggested.  No change; Payal is 'unclaimed', OpenCart is 'paid unconfirmed'.  But it sounds like this is the design.

For me, not linking the PayPal IPN payment confirmation into OpenCart order status is a no-go.  I can't have others logging on the paypal to verify payment, or inserting myself into the shipping process. 

Also, I my opinion, PayPal should be configured with 'auto return' enabled.  The shopping cart should stay (with items) until either 1) the auto return URL is called, or 2) the IPN for that cart is called.  In this way, if for some reason, the user cannot complete the PayPal transaction, the items remain in the cart.  (think the browser freezes, like IE does on PayPal, or using the back button to add/remove items from the cart).

I'll also add, I think you need the shopping cart status - as currently exists, and a payment status.  The payment status reflects PayPal's status of the payment.  This allows the PayPal user to make the payment via a bank account - which generates something like 'payment in progress' IPN until the bank clears the electronic check, then the IPN is called again with another status (payment complete).  Also, if you use PayPal to refund the transaction, IPN is called again with the refund status, and this information would be reflected in the cart status.

I apologize if you already know this.  Maybe the scope of these are to much work given the OpenCar architecture (which I am completely unaware of). 

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Post by Qphoria » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:33 pm

rbuckthal wrote: I added the IPN call-back as you suggested.  No change; Payal is 'unclaimed', OpenCart is 'paid unconfirmed'.  But it sounds like this is the design.
Well the Paid Unconfirmed should change to Pending if either A)IPN is called properly or B)Customer clicks "Return to Merchant" after payment.
rbuckthal wrote: For me, not linking the PayPal IPN payment confirmation into OpenCart order status is a no-go.  I can't have others logging on the paypal to verify payment, or inserting myself into the shipping process. 
This should work. But I am no expert on the IPN stuff. Can anyone else confirm?
rbuckthal wrote: Also, I my opinion, PayPal should be configured with 'auto return' enabled. 
This is the purpose of IPN, Paypal has no auto-return for normal paypal. Only for Paypal Pro they can go from your site, to pay, back to your site to complete checkout. That is planned for the future, but for now this is basic (free) paypal
rbuckthal wrote: The shopping cart should stay (with items) until either 1) the auto return URL is called, or 2) the IPN for that cart is called.  In this way, if for some reason, the user cannot complete the PayPal transaction, the items remain in the cart.  (think the browser freezes, like IE does on PayPal, or using the back button to add/remove items from the cart).
That is how it was, but the problem was that the order would get lost if they customer paid and 1) IPN didnt work or 2)they didnt return to the site afterwards. That is why I added the restore cart option when clicking hte "Cancel" button. But if a customer completes the Confirm process.. then he is locked into the checkout process. Hitting back is often frowned upon for many payment options. It's better to accidentally place the order and give the admin the chance to correct it, rather than have the customer pay and have no order to show for it. (which was the whole reason i re-wrote it). There is no perfect way to handle offsite payments like these.
rbuckthal wrote: I'll also add, I think you need the shopping cart status - as currently exists, and a payment status.  The payment status reflects PayPal's status of the payment.  This allows the PayPal user to make the payment via a bank account - which generates something like 'payment in progress' IPN until the bank clears the electronic check, then the IPN is called again with another status (payment complete).  Also, if you use PayPal to refund the transaction, IPN is called again with the refund status, and this information would be reflected in the cart status.
That would be a good request for the next version

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Post by JNeuhoff » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:34 pm

That would be a good request for the next version
What I would expect from the PayPal payment module is this: If it uses PayPal's IPN mechanism, OpenCart should keep the order status at 'Paid unconfirmed' until it definately receives a message from PayPal that e.g. the bank has really cleared the electronic check (PayPal has sent the final "payment_status" is "Completed," and OpenCart's callback function has sent a 'cmd=_notify-validate' and received the 'VERIFIED' from PayPal).

I had similar problems with Google Checkout, which sends loads of messages back to OpenCart's callback function but I only action upon a final 'payment completed' message changing the order status from 'Paid unconfirmed' to 'Pending' or on a 'Payment canceled' message in which case the order gets deleted by OpenCart.

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Post by bruce » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:07 pm

Hi rbuckthal,

There are a few things to note about the paypal module.
  • It is set by design only to authorise the payment so that you must go to your paypal account and claim the funds.
  • When you claim the funds, paypal should send the IPN and the payment extension should get the "Verified" response from paypal and the order will change it's status accordingly
  • The callback URL for the IPN to use is sent to Paypal with the original order information so you do not need to set a URL value in your paypal account. You do, however, need to turn on the IPN functionality there.
To change the "Authorisation" to "Sale" and take the funds automatically, make the following change in catalog/extension/payment/paypal.php

Code: Select all

		//  commented out to have the payment automatically captured
		//$ouput .= '<input type="hidden" name="paymentaction" value="authorization" />' . "\n";
You might also want to have a look at your web server logs in cpanel (or whatever you use) to see if the IPN from paypal is arriving. There are some hosting providers (GoDaddy for example) where the paypal IPN response by opencart is blocked by firewall software and so a "Verified" response can never be received. If GoDaddy is your hosting provider, I recommend you find another.

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Post by Qphoria » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:52 pm

bruce wrote:
  • It is set by design only to authorise the payment so that you must go to your paypal account and claim the funds.
  • When you claim the funds, paypal should send the IPN and the payment extension should get the "Verified" response from paypal and the order will change it's status accordingly
  • The callback URL for the IPN to use is sent to Paypal with the original order information so you do not need to set a URL value in your paypal account. You do, however, need to turn on the IPN functionality there.
To change the "Authorisation" to "Sale" and take the funds automatically, make the following change in catalog/extension/payment/paypal.php
I planned on adding the option to choose auth or sale the admin area as I've never seen a cart do the authorize only so I wasn't to keen on it for my personal store. When I get paid, i want to be paid!

But I guess I didn't realize, based on what you said above, that the IPN callback won't trigger on "auth" mode. Only when the claim is made. I assume the, if you change to "sale" then IPN should callback right away. I will test this theory out.

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Post by Qphoria » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:11 am

So I've been doing a bit more thinking.

I found a site that does standard paypal in a different order:
Cart has a standard paypal button on it
Goto Paypal, login, and it shows the cart with only the item in it
Then you pay and go back to the store to choose shipping. It uses the address info from paypal to populate the billing form
Then you checkout confirm with the new amount and it goes back and adjusts the amount to take, even if its higher than the step2.

This seemed weird, but not.

Further research shows a topic from a post on the paypal developer board,
There are 3 values for "paymentaction" field:
- Authorization - allows you to hold the money and charge up to 115% of the amount
- Sale - instant transfer
- Order - something like authorization

Based on the description of Authorization, it is almost like we could use that to "hold" the funds and then return to the checkout process to finish. But I'm still looking at stuff

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Post by rbuckthal » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:02 am

Well, a lot was said here.  I don't know who the players are, so I don't know if the responses are 'opinions' or from the code writers.

From a user (store owner) perspective; I expect the shopping cart to be synchronized with PayPal.  I should not need to go into PayPal to 'accept payments', or 'authorize payment', or verify that a payment has actually occurred before I authorize a shipment.  The only reason to go to PayPal is the initiate the transfer of received funds to my back account, or, to execute a refund (although it would be nice if the shopping cart could do this).

From a customer perspective; I'll used the back button (or refresh) whenever I damn well want to... and it better not screw up the software... 

I've written a very simple shopping checkout using PayPal, so I have a little experience with PayPal, but by no means to I consider myself an expert.  But, IMHO:

- IPN should be considered reliable.  The IPN exchange requires a validation handshake, and IPN message will re-try for four days before giving up.  IPN has the status about the transfer of the funds to/from your account (not the customer interaction with PayPal).  (when you enable IPN on PayPal you MUST include a URL)

- Payment Data Transfer (PDT) with Auto Return enabled, like IPN, is available on any PayPal account for free.  PDT/AR has the status of the customer interaction with PayPal (not necessarily the funds transfer to/from PayPal).  And, when enabled, forces the customer back to the client site immediately after the customer accepts the transaction.

- and finally, the cancel URL, which is called whenever the customer selects cancel transaction from PayPal.

Given this I believe simple and reliable PayPal module is possible.

-  the cart is 'emptied' from the Auto Return URL and the status indicates the transaction was accepted by the customer.  (it is unlikely, but possible, that the payment was actually accepted by PayPal but the customer did not return to the Auto Return URL (browser, internet died).  In the case, the IPN notification should also 'empty' the cart)

- the cancel URL or the back button maintain the cart as is.

- the IPN URL will (empty the cart as a backup and) update the cart status with the payment status.

- (no need for that 'redirect' page.  or special cart saving stuff...)

If we can agree on these functionally goals (or something close), I'd be willing to help test this.  I'm not sure of the process to get involved, but I'm willing to spend some time helping.

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Post by Qphoria » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:07 am

rbuckthal wrote: Well, a lot was said here.  I don't know who the players are, so I don't know if the responses are 'opinions' or from the code writers.
You can consider me a main playe/developer. I too want to resolve this as the past carts I've used haven't had this many problems with paypal.
rbuckthal wrote: From a user (store owner) perspective; I expect the shopping cart to be synchronized with PayPal.  I should not need to go into PayPal to 'accept payments', or 'authorize payment', or verify that a payment has actually occurred before I authorize a shipment.  The only reason to go to PayPal is the initiate the transfer of received funds to my back account, or, to execute a refund (although it would be nice if the shopping cart could do this).
I've added the option to choose "Authorization" or "Sale" from the admin area in the latest SVN. Now you can set it to "Sale" and the money will be instantly transferred.
rbuckthal wrote: From a customer perspective; I'll used the back button (or refresh) whenever I damn well want to... and it better not screw up the software... 
Well, I agree.. but we have a few scenarios to discuss:
Scenario 1 (THE OLD OPENCART PAYPAL MODULE)
1. Customer checks out, gets sent to paypal.
At this point:
- OpenCart has stored the order in the temp order table with "Paid Unconfirmed" status. It is NOT a real order yet
- The Cart has not been emptied yet

2. Customer clicks:
- back button to correct something.
---- Cart is still there(Good)
---- Customer can change order as needed -(Good)
- Cancel & Return link from paypal
---- Cart is still there (Good)
---- Customer can change order as needed -(Good)

3. Customer checks out again and pays with paypal and is sent to the "Thank you for your Payment. Click to return to merchant" screen
- At this point
---- if IPN worked, then the order is processed, the cart is cleared. Success (Good)
---- If IPN didn't work then the payment is made, but there has been no message back to opencart to process the order. (BAD)
- If the customer clicks "Return To Merchant" then it acts like a second chance, and processes the order since it calls the same function as the callback (Better than Nothing)
- If the customer doesn't click "Return to Merchant"
---- The order stays in temp table for a maximum of 1 hour, then it is deleted (BAD)
---- The cart is never cleared (BAD)
---- The store owner is never notified (BAD)
---- The customer is pissed cuz he paid and you have no record (BAD)
FAILED

Scenario 2 (THE NEW OPENCART PAYPAL MODULE)
1. Customer checks out, gets sent to pre-processing page.
At this point:
- OpenCart has stored the order in the "real" order table with "Paid Unconfirmed" status. It IS a real order
- The Cart is stored in a session variable for restore purposes, and the real cart is emptied
- The order is considered "real" but payment hasn't been confirmed yet.

2. Customer clicks:
- back button to correct something.
---- Cart is gone. (BAD)
---- Customer is confused and has to redo everything -(BAD)
---- store owner has bogus orders to track down -(BAD)
- Cancel & Return link from paypal
---- Store runs "Undo" function (Better than Nothing)
---- Cart is restored, order is undone. (Good)
---- Customer can change order as needed -(Good)

3. Customer checks out again and pays with paypal and is sent to the "Thank you for your Payment. Click to return to merchant" screen
- At this point
---- if IPN worked, then the order is updated to "Pending" or whichever state you choose in the lang file and the deed is done. Success (Good)
---- If IPN didn't work then the payment is made, but there has been no message back to opencart to update the order, but at least the order exists in an unsure state. (Better than Nothing)
- If the customer clicks "Return To Merchant" then it acts like a second chance, and updates the order to "Pending" (Better than Nothing)
- If the customer doesn't click "Return to Merchant"
---- The order stays in "Paid Unconfirmed" state, leaving the store owner to follow up (Better than Nothing)
---- The cart is already cleared (Good)
---- The store owner has an order record (Good)
---- The customer has an order email (Good)
SUCCESS

I created the lesser of two evils, but you are right, it's not a solution. It was aimed at preventing order loss.
rbuckthal wrote: - IPN should be considered reliable.  The IPN exchange requires a validation handshake, and IPN message will re-try for four days before giving up.  IPN has the status about the transfer of the funds to/from your account (not the customer interaction with PayPal).  (when you enable IPN on PayPal you MUST include a URL)
The ipn address at paypal is a bit confusing. I had the same problem too, where paypal "requires" you to enter an IPN url. But the IPN url is actually passed from the form anyway, so it's kinda dumb that they require it. Nevertheless, it should be: "http://www.mysite.com/index.php?control ... n=callback"
rbuckthal wrote: - Payment Data Transfer (PDT) with Auto Return enabled, like IPN, is available on any PayPal account for free.  PDT/AR has the status of the customer interaction with PayPal (not necessarily the funds transfer to/from PayPal).  And, when enabled, forces the customer back to the client site immediately after the customer accepts the transaction.
I'm no paypal expert, but yes this would save us a lot of pain and agony if there was a way to enable this. I just haven't seen it in my brief looks at the paypal documentation.
rbuckthal wrote: - and finally, the cancel URL, which is called whenever the customer selects cancel transaction from PayPal.
This is currently linked to call the "undo" function to restore the cart and undo the order. But really, based on the way you want to back button to be supported. The cancel would be nothing more than a back button, taking you back to checkout_confirm page.
rbuckthal wrote: Given this I believe simple and reliable PayPal module is possible.
I'm open to suggestions
rbuckthal wrote: -  the cart is 'emptied' from the Auto Return URL and the status indicates the transaction was accepted by the customer.  (it is unlikely, but possible, that the payment was actually accepted by PayPal but the customer did not return to the Auto Return URL (browser, internet died).  In the case, the IPN notification should also 'empty' the cart)

- the cancel URL or the back button maintain the cart as is.

- the IPN URL will (empty the cart as a backup and) update the cart status with the payment status.

- (no need for that 'redirect' page.  or special cart saving stuff...)
The key here is really the auto-return stuff. If we get that to work, then there would be no need for all the other stuff. That is the main bain.
Last edited by Qphoria on Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Qphoria » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:56 am

OK.. i see the autoreturn stuff is actually set in the paypal profile:

   1. Log in and click the Profile subtab under My Account.
   2. Click the Website Payment Preferences link under Selling Preferences.
   3. Click the On radio button to enable Auto Return.
   4. Enter the Return URL. Note: You must meet the Return URL requirements in order to set up Auto Return. Learn more about Return URL.
(Tho it doesn't tell you that you must first have a verified account to do this)

Return_URL would be: http://www.mysite.com/index.php?control ... ut_success

In fact, there are a lot of useful features on that page that are pretty much required to have a successful paypal experience

There's lots to be learned here:
https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd= ... umentation

Especially this one which deals with the "Standard integration". I will take a look. I invite any others with a little know-how to assist as desired
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Post by Qphoria » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:44 pm

Ok, been doing some research. Found some interesting tidbits:

1. Seems you don't need to enable IPN in your paypal account manually. The paypal module already sends the "notify_url" field, which auto-enables IPN for that transaction.
More info here: https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd= ... ymentnotif
So don't worry about entering an IPN url in the paypal side, as the ipn url is set in the module

2. Unfortunately, although it has been requested, there isn't a similar setting for automatically enabling auto-return via a field pass.
http://www.paypaldeveloper.com/pdn/boar ... 0462#M7886
This has a few people quite unhappy

3. It also seems, that if you have auto-return enabled AND use the "allow people to pay by credit card".. it will not return automatically for credit card paying customers. Absolutely retarded paypal! More here:
http://www.paypaldeveloper.com/pdn/boar ... 462#M23364

4. Seems people have been having the same problems that we are having as well with for years using the osCommerce paypal module and others as well: http://paypaldev.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10627

So they all say that IPN is really the only viable option and solution, so that MUST work or it all dies.

So the long term solution might be to better integrate a better service from them like Paypal Express but instead of only doing it half-way and letting paypal be the order manager, complete the full process back to the store and record the data into the opencart order manager

But for 0.7.9 I guess the BEST option would be:
- Go back to the original method of paypal. The new version causes too much confusion in an error scenario or back-button press. The old one would work best if auto-return is enabled and/or IPN is working 100% of the time.
- Get IPN working perfectly 100%
- inform people to enable auto-return in their paypal accounts as a backup
- inform people to disallow creditcard payments if IPN isn't working for them

The other change to the paypal module, however, which some of you are confused about is the "Checkout_Pending" page. This isn't really a paypal thing. This is a security thing. Right now, using almost ANY payment processor, I could go to your store and fool your store into thinking I placed an order, even without paying. So if you don't carefully watch, you could be duped (probably not very likely unless people are very intimate with opencart's functionality) but still a danger. So the pending page is a way for us to post back to opencart, to validate that the confirmation button was clicked, before going on to the payment processor. It might not be the best implementation of it yet, but it is meant to protect. We will rewrite the way checkout works in 0.8 but for now this is what works

This is how I've seen other stores do it as well. So I will still try to merge that feature into the old paypal module.

Anyone else got any ideas?
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Post by yl » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:09 am

I have the same worries too. I am using 0.7.7 and going to test Paypal feature. Before going on to there, I want to upload the latest paypal_improved_v1.0 to my 0.7.7 in order to reducing potential hassle. Is this payal_improved_v.10 usable to 0.7.7? :-\

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Post by hm2k » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:41 am

It seems a shame to have to roll back, but if that's the best solution, then so be it?

Move to bugs?

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Post by yl » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:54 pm

I didn't mean moving to more bugs! I have learned alot on this forum since. To learning a new world has a lot of obstacles and I've come to here today and haven't given up, because I found this site encouraging anyone who likes me "Brand New" to share experience and helping each others...(but I am to one helping less.. :( driving bugs.. :D)   

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Post by Qphoria » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:31 pm

OK I'm going to replace the core paypal with the old version, and add some additional information in the configuration section to remind people that auto-return should be enabled. I'm also going to try to get IPN working with my test environment. I've been unable to do so yet, and have only been going on the notion that it was working all along. If someone else can also help test that IPN is indeed working I'd be very grateful.

I will then release the "New Paypal Concept" as a contrib for those who might prefer its functionality.

Main difference:
Original Paypal
Checkout->Paypal->Return/IPN->Process Order (Pending)
Problem: Risk of not processing if Return/IPN doesn't happen
Solution: Auto-return enabled will force the return. Working IPN will force the processing
New Paypal
Checkout->Process Order (Unconfirmed)->Paypal->Return/IPN->Process Order (Processing)
Problem: Risk of getting order & customer confused if they make a change after going to paypal site
Solution: The idea here was to process the order first, then goto paypal. But if back button clicked, then the order is processed and can't be changed.

So the original paypal just works better if the account is set up accordingly

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