Post by Avvici » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:06 pm

CSS is a wonderful thing. Learn some :) Become your own hero!

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Post by michaow » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:06 pm

I can fully understand Qphoria´s point of view that it is not possible to support all themes. It should not be the extension developer´s business. He create an extension that works with the default theme and maybe 1-2 major themes. All other additional work should be negotiated and paid extra. There are really amazing extensions out there and it drives me crazy I can not use them with my template. What stunning webshops we could deliver!

The architecture of themes in relation to extensions is more than unlucky in the first place and should be really considered by the opencart dev team in future if they want the product to be successful.

But for now you should offer a solution otherwise nobody will buy your extensions anymore. The base line is: use the default theme if you want to use extensions. $10 or $20 is a funny price for a funcionality that makes a webshop owner´s life easier so there should be no problem to pay an extra dollar if someone wants the extension to adapt to his needs.

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Post by JAY6390 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:25 am

Totally agree Micaow
People can't expect to have mods work with every theme considering the vast changes that some make to the way the default works. Sure the theme's are beautiful but they break absolutely everything (almost ;) ). Store owners need to be aware that they will run into issues when as they add more and more mods too. Some mods will just not work together without alterations. Paying for someone's time to fix this is in my opinion a necessity and quite insulting to expect everything to work perfectly by default

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Post by KatGirl » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:13 am

No offense, but I hope to God the default theme isn't updated and re-coded using Shoppica as the backbone. :choke:

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Post by OC2PS » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:54 am

KatGirl wrote:re-coded using Shoppica as the backbone
I think we're quite safe.

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Post by themeburn » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:14 am

KatGirl wrote:No offense, but I hope to God the default theme isn't updated and re-coded using Shoppica as the backbone. :choke:
And could you share the reasons for your prayer?

We are deadly serious.

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Post by rph » Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:58 am

-Many classes have unuseful and non-explanatory names like "s_full clearfix" and "s_col_12".
-PHP was rewritten in alternative syntax breaking many mods
-Sections of the template were broken off and thrown in their own includes breaking mods
-Declares doctype as XHTML 1.0 Strict but isn't
-Generally re-arranged everything everywhere

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Post by KatGirl » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:10 pm

rph wrote:-Many classes have unuseful and non-explanatory names like "s_full clearfix" and "s_col_12".
-PHP was rewritten in alternative syntax breaking many mods
-Sections of the template were broken off and thrown in their own includes breaking mods
-Declares doctype as XHTML 1.0 Strict but isn't
-Generally re-arranged everything everywhere
exactly.

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Post by pubblisoft » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:35 pm

Hi all,

I'm new in OpenCart. I created a shop using the latest version of the program, but I must apply some changes in the default template. I think that it is strange not got in the basic version. I think it's strange that the functions described are not included in the basic version of a e-commerce software.

1) the view of the subcategories as like the products, including list and grid mode with thumbs.
2) the possibility to replace the "buy" button and the shopping cart with "show" button by using a system parameter. I do not want to make it possible to buy the products at the beginning, but only to show my production to the customer. I'll enable then "buy" button as soon i'll be ready to manage the shipping.
3) The php generated pages are "dirty" for Google SEO. The doc property is not correct and W3C is not respected.
4) The Nivoslider plugin doesn't work well with the IE8 browser 32bit and 64bit as well.
5) In the admin area, the assignment of slider images to the slideshow module is not clear and easy. I have to create a new category template, add the images to the layout, the category to the module and finally to assign the layout to the category (i think so...) . Why not include all steps in a single menu item ?
6) If i set category.tpl to the parent category and category2.tpl to a sub-category (just one), category2.tpl will auto set to the parent category.

I made some php changes to fix the issues, as like in /catalog/controller/product/category.php :

Code: Select all

$this->data['categories'] = array();
            
            $results = $this->model_catalog_category->getCategories($category_id);
    
            foreach ($results as $result) {
                $data = array(
                    'filter_category_id'  => $result['category_id'],
                    'filter_sub_category' => true
                );
                
                $product_total = $this->model_catalog_product->getTotalProducts($data);                
                if ($result['image']) {
                    $image = $this->model_tool_image->resize($result['image'], $this->config->get('config_image_product_width'), $this->config->get('config_image_product_height'));
                } else {
                    $image = false;
                }
                $this->data['categories'][] = array(
                    'name'  => $result['name'] . ($this->config->get('config_product_count') ? ' (' . $product_total . ')' : ''),
                    'image'    => $image,
                    'href'  => $this->url->link('product/category', 'path=' . $this->request->get['path'] . '_' . $result['category_id'] . $url)
                );
            } 
In my category.tpl file:

Code: Select all

<h2>List subcategory of <?php echo $heading_title; ?></h2>
<p></p>
<div class="category-grid">  
    <?php if (count($categories) <= 5) { ?>
      <?php foreach ($categories as $category) { ?>
    <div>      
      <div class="image">
       <a href="<?php echo $category['href']; ?>"><img src="<?php echo $category['image']; ?>" title="<?php echo $category['name']; ?>" alt="<?php echo $category['name']; ?>" /></a>
       </div>
      <div class="name"><a href="<?php echo $category['href']; ?>"><?php echo $category['name']; ?></a></div>
      <div class="cart"><input type="button" value="<?php echo 'visualizza'; ?>" onclick="window.location='<?php echo $category['href']; ?>'" class="button" /></div>
       </div>
      <?php } ?>
    <?php } else { ?>
    <?php for ($i = 0; $i < count($categories);) { ?>
      <?php $j = $i + ceil(count($categories) / 4); ?>
      <?php for (; $i < $j; $i++) { ?>
      <div>
      <?php if (isset($categories[$i])) { ?>
      <?php if ( $categories[$i]['image']) { ?>
      <div class="image">
      <a href="<?php echo $categories[$i]['href']; ?>"><img src="<?php echo $categories[$i]['image']; ?>" title="<?php echo $categories[$i]['name']; ?>" alt="<?php echo $categories[$i]['name']; ?>" /></a>
      </div>
      <?php } ?>      
      <div class="name"><a href="<?php echo $categories[$i]['href']; ?>"><?php echo $categories[$i]['name']; ?></a></div>
      <div class="cart"><input type="button" value="<?php echo 'visualizza'; ?>" onclick="window.location='<?php echo $categories[$i]['href']; ?>'" class="button" /></div>
      <?php } ?>
      </div>
      <?php } ?>
    <?php } ?>
    <?php } ?>
  </div>
  <?php }
(the template code is not well wrote, i think it should be better).

and many other changes.....

I like very much this software, but i believe small changes should be made.
Last edited by Johnathan on Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added [code] tags for readability

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Post by JNeuhoff » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:11 pm

themeburn wrote:
KatGirl wrote:No offense, but I hope to God the default theme isn't updated and re-coded using Shoppica as the backbone. :choke:
And could you share the reasons for your prayer?

We are deadly serious.
Just to give you one example of an email we received this morning:
hi, i already use export import tool..i can use with default theme but have some error when use on shoppica theme..this tool not support shoppica theme? thanks
I'll will tell this customer it's either the Export/Import tool, or shoppica! He can't have both.

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Post by Qphoria » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:07 pm

JNeuhoff wrote:
I'll will tell this customer it's either the Export/Import tool, or shoppica! He can't have both.
Why would the export tool be affected by shoppica tho?

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Post by JNeuhoff » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:20 pm

Qphoria wrote:
JNeuhoff wrote:
I'll will tell this customer it's either the Export/Import tool, or shoppica! He can't have both.
Why would the export tool be affected by shoppica tho?
Don't know, but my guess is shoppica must have messed up the admin/view/template/common/header.tpl, or perhaps the admin/controller/common/header.php. It probably has its own menu entries added to in a non-friendly way.

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Post by Klimskady » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:39 am

I have Shoppica 2 and use the export tool so its something else.

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Post by JNeuhoff » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:26 pm

Thanks for letting us know. Maybe he should then upgrade his shoppica theme to the latest version.

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Post by Ampeter » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:45 pm

The default opencart theme really needs an overhaul to make it easier to work with. I think this article really nails the current problems and gives a couple of good suggestions to improve the situation.

I specially like the proposal to create a globally accepted "boilerplate" theme.

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Post by villagedefrance » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:40 pm

Hi all,

Thanks Qphoria for bringing this subject here. I agree 100% with your initial Post.

We all know that the Default Template is very basic and most store owners will go for a custom theme instead. Still, I think that it should remain completely untouched and provide a fallback if necessary. All theme developers should ALWAYS offer their customers the ability to change their store theme BACK to Default Template at anytime.

That DOES NOT mean that those developers will be limited with the Default CSS or Default controller files! ALL THEMES and MODULES can be designed to respect the Default template ... and you don't even need vQmods to do that correctly. It is always better to ADD new lines of code rather than modifying existing ones.

When designing new extensions, developpers HAVE TO base their work on the Default Template to insure maximum compatibility with the 1000+ custom themes available accross all Opencart versions. This why the Default Template is so important!
Still, I keep receiving enquiries and support requests for my modules when they are installed on custom themes like Shoppica and Selegance, to name just a few.
All in all, I really think that if a custom theme is not based or able to revert safely to Default then it should be removed from Opencart Extensions.

The other thing I need to mention, following jNeuhoff posts above, is this: JNeuhoff's extensions are perfectly coded, I never had an issue with them ever. I do check every extension I download from OC Extensions for PHP or Html errors, especially the free ones, and I never had to adjust jNeuhoff's work. So if your custom theme can't install them correctly that's most likely because of a badly designed custom theme.

Regards to all.

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Post by neustop » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:42 am

Personally I think a big part of the problem is the default theme itself. The CSS needs to be totally rewritten to be more child-template friendly.

A lot of the markup in the default theme would also benefit from a full rewrite. There's also a -lot- of JavaScript being used. It should probably all be evaluated to see if perhaps there are simpler ways to accomplish some of what is being handled by JS. If the default theme were a better starting point I think there would be less issues with custom themes built using it as a base.

I'd like to help make the default theme better, but I'm hesitant to devote a lot of time to it because I'm not sure if Daniel would ever be willing to incorporate any changes into the core.

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Post by ecoleman » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:53 pm

How about theme developers that do not use opencart standard naming should be responsible for supporting extensions that don't work with their theme instead of the other way round.

I'm sick of making things work for Shoppica, Sellegance etc because they've changed everything.

Thing is, nobody ever goes to the theme developers and says "Oi, this extensions doesn't work with your theme, will you fix it for free?"

I also agree that there needs to be a system in place for installation charges as an option for the customer. Whilst I have no problem supporting my extensions I don't see why I should spend an hour of my time modifying code to work with a 3rd party extension or theme for free, when I've only netted £6 for the extension in the first place.

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Post by darrengould » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:55 pm

OK well as someone who sits on neither side of the fence but is a store owner I would have to say that this is a great topic by Q.

I recently wrote to Daniel regarding the fact that there was only one default theme and that over time it would have been better to have at least one or two more to be able to customise.

Any theme purchased off the Open Cart website should work as well as the default theme otherwise IMO it is not an OC theme.

Without sitting on either side of the fence I say that any theme OR mod should work as well as the core files or default theme otherwise it isn't OC compatible and shouldn't be sold on the OC extension list.

I also told Daniel my thought was that he should integrate more extensions into OC core files so that designers or coders wouldn't have to keep coming up against these problems. I said that I understood he needed the revenue from extensions but they do need to be integrated sooner or later otherwise store owners have a cart that cannot function properly as extensions and themes clash with each other.

If this problem is not resolved there will come a time (nearly there recently) when someone creates Open Cart II and simply codes a lot of the extensions into the core files so a theme producer knows what they are working with.

Probably a hot topic between you coders and designers but as a store owner I would like to continue to use OC without the hassle of worrying whether one will clash with the other and then having two authors blame each others work for the problem.

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Post by kellysko875 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:05 pm

Qphoria wrote: It is also important to follow the basic Theme developing guidelines
Does this exist anywhere now?

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