Post by Qphoria » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:48 am

Or if you use the real vQmod for 2.0 ( ;) ), it takes effect on the pre-ocmodded files. So the situation where your vQmod doesn't consider it shouldn't be an issue. You will see a log error saying it cannot find the search term and then you can check the ocmodded version of the code for the correct adjustment.

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Post by antonior14 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:57 pm

Hi! I have just installed Simple Blog and other modules that require Vqmod for Opencart 2.0.1.1

So I can see and manage these from admin panel, but I can't see modules in front side

What's the issue?

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Post by Qphoria » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:52 pm

Did you install vQmod engine first?
The admin part is likely just modules but the scripts require you to install the vQmod engine from http://vqmod.com

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Post by LédiFrance » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:54 pm

Half a year later, what is the situation ? Are there still any reasons to prefer vQmod over OCmod ?

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Post by IP_CAM » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:19 pm

Either One, or the Other, but not BOTH, because they are doing DIFFERENT THINGS, so, at best, staying in the way of each other. Just read the forum, about all those 'unknown' problems, users have. OC2 has NOT been built, to do such, OcMod would NOT have implemented. if it would have been built, to further use VqMods.

I really don't understand, why users do NOT understand this. V2 ist a NEW Generation, we should accept this, and act accordingly. It's the only way, to act 'professionally'....

My very personal opinion!
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Post by LédiFrance » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:22 pm

IP_CAM wrote:Either One, or the Other, but not BOTH, because they are doing DIFFERENT THINGS, so, at best, staying in the way of each other. Just read the forum, about all those 'unknown' problems, users have. OC2 has NOT been built, to do such, OcMod would NOT have implemented. if it would have been built, to further use VqMods.
Thanks for your reply, though I'm not sure I understand the last part. Also, I fail to see what different things they are doing, I'm guessing you rather meant they are doing things differently ?

Anyway, vQmod's workflow seems pretty simpler (no need to refresh the cache from the admin panel) so I think I'll go for it. The syntax being almost identical, it should not be a problem to switch later if I found any reason (performance ?) to do so.

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Post by IP_CAM » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:37 am

Either VqMod, or then, OcMod, one of both has to ACT first, i.E., in a Product Page, where BOTH MOD-Types are beeing used, to do whatever...! This means, that, possibly, the FIRST acting Mod will USE an ANCHOR, to ADD something, either before, or then, AFTER the ANCHOR, AND/OR WITH the ANCHOR, as it LOOKS, itself, as well ! This first MOD will then PRODUCE a Cached Template, wich is to be used, by the SECOND MOD, to, possibly, USE the same ANCHOR, (if it still EXISTS, in the DEFINED FORM !?), to DO something, before or AFTER the ANCHOR PLACE. FULLY unaware, and un-impressed of, what REALLY exists, done from the Work of the first Mod, in order to present it's Content, in the Place, expected to be. :o

What I mean ist, if you draw a Line, somewhere, and on both Sides to the Line, two different Crews starting to work, on one (or more) different Things, fully unaware of the Fact, that they NEED TO MEET, somewhere, on the Line, with Matching Connections, the chance, that it will work, are relatively slim. Despite of the Fact, that it is rather seldom the Case, yet, but, as more Mod's will meet V2 Spec's, as greater the Risk of Collisions will be, and come. It's just a Matter of time. A V-2 tImebomb, kind of ! 8)

And, what's the USE, of DOING something TWICE, just, because 2 WAY'S of doing something, exist ??? :laugh:
It's just double time, and Memory, used in the server, to do actually TWO Jobs, what could be done in ONE.
That's NUT'S!

From my personal Point View, it's a war, going on. Behind the Curtains. But it's not a war about techniques, or even technologies (using such similar coding!!), and that's, what makes it 'complicated', kind of...
just My 2 Cents... :D
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Post by LédiFrance » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:44 pm

Ah, of course. Indeed I just checked and vQmod does not apply to OCmod'd files. [Edit : Just tested again and it does work, not sure what I did wrong the first time…] I couldn't check the opposite because I got tired of struggling with the extension manager — this validates my choice of vQmod's workflow : just edit files on the server, refresh the webpage, and basta !

Anyway, if OCmod applies to vQmod'd files, then it should not be too difficult to modify OCmod extensions in case of conflict, so that their code apply to already modded files.

On the other hand, if as you imply both act in parallel (though I'm not sure how it could actually be possible ?), then one may modify vQmod itself (easier than OCmod, I guess) so that it applies after OCmod.

Actually, I guess one can encounter similar conflicts using only two OCmod or two vQmod scripts, right ? In which case it's not really about OCmod vs vQmod.
Last edited by LédiFrance on Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by IP_CAM » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:25 pm

>> Actually, I guess one can encounter similar conflicts using only two OCmod or two vQmod scripts, right ?
In which case it's not really about OCmod vs vQmod. <<

I don't know 'enough' about OcMod, but by use of VqMod's, as you wrote, we already face enough conflict potential.
That's, what I'm talking about. But, at least, in such a 'sole' VqMod related case, it's relatively easy to find out.
Wich will not longer be the case, if another potential 'Troublemaker' exist, in this case Case OcMod. Or vice versa!
But, it's enough, to have one troublesome 'Place', already, WHO in the World need's TWO ??

What I fear, is, that, under such circumstances, more and more Questions appear at the forum, not
beeing replied to, a growing number of Peoples are getting tired, trying to assist, and, as a consequence
of such,there won't be much left, exept for paid support, and decreassing numbers of OC Installations.
It's as easy as that. And we all are going to loose, at the end.

I have seen, and participated, in great Projects, eventually failing, because of rather similar problems,
during the past 2 decades.If OC should ever fail, because of whatever reason, Shop-Installers just move on the
another Software, they don't give a damn about OC, or Daniel, or whoever, it's not their Business, nor their Will,
to get or be involved in some 'internal' fights', or fundamental programmer-differences, on how to proceed,
technically, to make a very beautyfull software functionable, at it's best.

It's in the SOLE Interest, of OC-Users, to get the best possible Solutions. Anything else DOES NOT COUNT. But, as ever, obviously, there is a lot of money involved, Daniel just mentioned it, in another Post. As a consequence of this, it's a natural Behaviour, of Humen Beeings, trying to get their Share, be Part of a 'Scene'. And, if no strict Rules exist, and Way's, to enforce such Rules, it will just end up, splitting up in several Directions, and Philosophies, something, we already experience, in seemengly growing Numbers.
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But, it's not really my Problem, actually, I am not even involved, in anything, exept for taking, what's available, on Knowledge, for free, and trying to give back a little, here, at the forum. That's, why I came here, in the first place.
But, because of that, I can afford to be critical as well, against anything, and anybody, without taking the slightest chance, to loose something, when publishing 'difficult' Comments on/to Matters like this.

I just wanted to make sure, that it has been published. At least, for those, looking for top OC Performance, but uninformed, possibly, of potential Brakes and/or Problems, related with such (actually just ideology driven) Way's, of building a high performance OC-driven v.2.x Shop. It would be very sad to see it fail, eventually, because of such.

So much to this, no offense , only thoughts... ;)
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Post by Qphoria » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:46 am

For the record, vQmod supports both. It lets ocmod go first, before it does it's changes. That means it alters the ocmodded version of the file. This can cause some confusion when an ocmod does a change to the same file first, but it is easy to see the vqcache file and notice that a line that the vqmod is missing because it A) was a typo or B) was changed by another ocmod/vqmod before loading.

vQmod's vqcache folder makes it much easier to see exactly what the resultant file looks like so you can more easily track down where the change was made.

So there is no reason you can't have both, and especially if you have 2 unrelated mods there's no problem there. You can have an ocmod that adds new country parameters and a vQmod that adds new image params to products. vQmod was designed to co-exist. But overall, vQmod is more portable, debuggable, readable, toggle-able, and editable.

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Post by JNeuhoff » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:27 am

@IP_CAM: As Qphoria pointed out, his VQmod allows both VQmod and OCmod files to co-exist with each other and do their modifications. The same is true with our version of VQmod, because it basically is an extended version of the admin/controller/extension/modification.php file, to add support for both OCmod and VQmod XML syntax.

All in all, there are 4 different ways to modify OpenCart core files:

1) VQmod
2) OCmod
3) Override Engine
4) Event handlers

And they can all co-exist without any problems. What is important is that extensions abide by the Opencart standards for its MVCL architecture, unfortunately it is here where most problems arise, especially for web themes.

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Post by LédiFrance » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:40 am

Qphoria wrote:For the record, vQmod supports both. It lets ocmod go first, before it does it's changes. That means it alters the ocmodded version of the file.
Great ! Indeed, I checked again and it works — not sure what I did wrong the first time.

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Post by IP_CAM » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:47 am

>> That means it alters the ocmodded version of the file. <<

Well, this is ok, but who's going to tell the VqMod, what OcMod has already been doing on/with the SOURCE FILE, when VqMod get's into Action? The OcModded Version will possibly look different, from, what VqMod expects it to be, and then, it will just not function, or malfunction, or visibly destroy the layout, or do some other bad things.

And as long as I have no explanation on how such should work, I just cannot imagine, it will... ???

Further, I am fully aware of the different 'Solutions', and I know, that they CAN Co-Exist in Peace. We used to have a Dog, and a Cat, and they mostly did too. :D But they DO NOT, in most cases, under REAL TERMS, exept when beeing adapted/installed by Professionals. Or strictly kept separately, like Dog's and Cat's.

As a consequence, Instead of less, more complicated and unexplainable Problems will be the result of such Doings.
And this is, what I fear most. And I am not so very sure, if it's worth it... :'(

But, just to make this clear, I did not plan to make any NOISE, about this, I'm just making sure, it has been mentioned. But if I would use OC v.2, I sure would create two 'nasty' Product-Page Mod's, to find out first, before just adding One more to my daily sorrows ;)

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Post by Qphoria » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:49 pm

IP_CAM wrote:>> That means it alters the ocmodded version of the file. <<

Well, this is ok, but who's going to tell the VqMod, what OcMod has already been doing on/with the SOURCE FILE, when VqMod get's into Action? The OcModded Version will possibly look different, from, what VqMod expects it to be, and then, it will just not function, or malfunction, or visibly destroy the layout, or do some other bad things.
I've already covered this. And it's no different than having 2 vQmods or 2 ocmods that alter the same lines. You'd have the same problem. a modification is a modification, regardless where it comes from. Could be a hardcode, or previous ocmod, or previous vQmod, etc. These are rare cases anyway, and the error logging will explain the issues, and the "generated" file will show what it has and why it couldn't find something. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

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Post by IP_CAM » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:44 am

I am not making nothing, I am just talking about the most efficient way of coding, usually, around here. And, so far, I have never seen any software, using two 'diametrically' working Routines, of the same, just in different ways, to do the same on a Website, at the same time... :o Double Work, to do, what could have been done in one step... :laugh:
We where just used to try it the opposite way, as much as possible, whereever Server Performance, and Load, was of any concern!

In addition, since VqMod will be initiated, and checked, every single time, a Page is called, if installed, regardless of, if it is USED or not, possibly similar to OcMod, it's truly the Contrary of a direct, efficient way, to work, especially under heavy Load. Just about somehow similar to, building a Mountain, before building the Road, to pass it, planned to be one straight direct Line, by default. :-\

But, please, don't put it on me now, I am in no way related to anything, I am just trying to get the best out of it. Possibly, a rather typical Swiss way, of doing it, with the mentality, that Any technical Compromise is already one too much. At least, if one care's, to stay ahead, and so belonging to the Leaders.

That's it, to this, from here, the future will tell...
no offense please, nothing is personal..., I even love VqMod's, they 'ease' my daily life very much!!
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Post by JNeuhoff » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:11 am

IP_CAM wrote: In addition, since VqMod will be initiated, and checked, every single time, a Page is called, if installed, regardless of, if it is USED or not, possibly similar to OcMod
Please stick to the facts because above mentioned isn't quite true! With OCMod, as well as our version of VQmod, all that happens is that the class autoloader, as implemented in the system/startup.php, checks for the existence of the class file to be loaded in system/modification first, and if not there, it then loads the original class file, there is no measurable performance hit with this approach. Even with Qs/Jays VQmod implementation which uses a dynamically generated vqmod/vqcache for the modified class files and template files, the performance penalty is neglectable.

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Post by i2Paq » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:06 pm

JNeuhoff wrote: All in all, there are 4 different ways to modify OpenCart core files:

1) VQmod
2) OCmod
3) Override Engine
4) Event handlers

And they can all co-exist without any problems. What is important is that extensions abide by the Opencart standards for its MVCL architecture, unfortunately it is here where most problems arise, especially for web themes.
What a waist of resources and what a source for issues!

If OC would use one system it would look so much more professional. Not even speaking about the simplicity it would be for everyone.

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Post by RuslanBrest » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:44 pm

i2Paq wrote:
JNeuhoff wrote: 1) VQmod
2) OCmod
3) Override Engine
4) Event handlers
What a waist of resources and what a source for issues!

If OC would use one system it would look so much more professional.
Using either vQmod or ocMod will always be an source of issues (conflicts), even if you use one of them.

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Post by Qphoria » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:21 am

RuslanBrest wrote:
i2Paq wrote:
JNeuhoff wrote: 1) VQmod
2) OCmod
3) Override Engine
4) Event handlers
What a waist of resources and what a source for issues!

If OC would use one system it would look so much more professional.
Using either vQmod or ocMod will always be an source of issues (conflicts), even if you use one of them.
No more than manually editing core files.

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Post by LédiFrance » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:11 pm

I don't want to rekindle the war flame or bash OCmod, but I just figured out a silly thing (took me a while…) : if an OCmod extension is installed, one has to refresh the cache not only when a modification is made on the OCmod, but also each time a new modification is made on a file which is affected by the mod.

Obviously, THIS APPLIES TO THEMES AS WELL !!! This means that if an OCmod modifies your theme and you wish to customize your theme further, you have to refresh the cache each time you make a change for it to appear on your website !!! Quite a pain IMO. I really didn't mean to, but I'm afraid I'm starting to hate OCmod…

At least this should be mentioned somewhere (or everywhere, actually).

It should be noted, though, that if you make your theme mods through vQmod instead of directly in files, there is no need to refresh the cache. Therefore I'd suggest using vQmod to customize your theme, then once it's ready make it an actual theme and refresh the cache (or to temporarily disable your OCmods if it's a reasonable option for you).

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