Post by iloveopencart » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:04 am

Well, this is a fun post.
You can sell your modules even at $ 1000, your problems are because nobody will buy.
I haven't seen any modules THAT high, thank goodness. But I can tell you, not only have I written a lot of my own enhancements, but I have also bought other developer's modules. And thanks to the small cost of their modules, it still cost me much less than buying one of those junky proprietary out-of-the-box options. I think for my latest project, I spent about $75 on addons... it saved me a bunch of time (which is valuable), and it saved me money.

I sure do love free stuff, too, but I also don't see anything wrong with making money - it's what keeps the world going round ;D. Oh, and opensource doesn't automatically mean free.. otherwise it would be Freeware. Nobody here is stealing from anyone. In fact, I think every developer that has commercial modules has also provided some free modules, too. It's not wrong for them to ask for money for their time, effort, and expertise. You can't think about the total sum of a developer's earnings for a module... that would be like saying Microsoft should only charge 1 cent for each program they sell because so many people buy them. Instead, you have to think about what the value of that module is to each person that buys it.

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Post by myopen » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:56 am

Nobody understood the meaning of the post. I am in favor of the development of modules. I only said that they cost too much and are out of the market for the price. The programmers do not realize it for a single customer, is like a work in scale .. 1 module after the fact is all gain. More costs in the module fewer customers buy, the cheaper in the module are the customers who buy. For me it is wrong to charge for the Forum members such high prices also OpenCart is prepared to offer different prices, so who joined the forum may have some special prices. This is not the problem .. I have only given an opinion because I work in the field of web marketing and I can say that the prices of the modules are too high, just because Internet sales to a large public. I apologize if I offended the sensibilities of developers, but it is said that sometimes if a person gets angry it is because there is truth in the words. Just as programmers have given modules, I present a form of marketing that is good for everyone, "the needs and requirements of the customer is the first step for the success of their businesses" (who does not consider this is to not sell .. or sell very little).
I am against people exploiting a situation and low-competent. I remain convinced that the modules are priced too high and that lower costs would benefit the entire board and budget programs as well as to OpenCart who earn much more users. Try for 2 to 3 months to put the forms at 1 euro and then make the comparison of earnings with the months with the full price ... you'll see the difference! .. and even if there were no difference, that the gains were the same, you should be happier, because you will have the opportunity to so many people to enjoy a form that needs .. This is the spirit of commerce in a sense of community. If you sell 2 modules to 35 euros 70 euros you have gained and the satisfaction of 2 customers and if you sell the same modules to 1 euro, 75 euro more you earn, but you will have helped 75 people who could not purchase prices than before. I think it's better to have the esteem of so many people earning the same ... no?

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Post by Qphoria » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:37 am

myopen wrote:In fact, I only said that in the contribution section (devoted to the contributions = synonym for free) now there are only modules of payment ... and I wonder why for me there is an affiliation between OpenCart and qphoria. This is my opinion. You can sell your modules even at $ 1000, your problems are because nobody will buy. I only wrote what many people think and write. I still maintain that the forms qphoria (very useful and well programmed) are very expensive and not worth the cost, since users OpenCart are many. Another thing, in many forums that deal with open source does not permit advertisements for commercial sites .. I wonder why there is public qphoria also always in the sections devoted to aid. I do not understand why make a trade forum dedicated to the support and help. There are hundreds of places to qphoria comes in and puts a link to your site commercial. that support is? Least should create a section on business forms such qphoria has fun and is happy. Modules qphoria have to do with OpenCart, otherwise your presence in every post you would notice no .. I only ever links to your commercial site .. and this thing is very sad ... for opensource. This is only exploit a situation and do little for the many people who believe in the project.
I really couldn't follow most of that.. but the affiliation I have is simply that I one of the people that knows the most about OpenCart... (perhaps more than Daniel :P) having worked with it for so long and created so many mods for it. So I am happy and willing to offer free help to people on the forums for questions they have. And I keep the forums clean from the spammers.

But when it comes to something that people want that doesn't personally help me, then I have to take the time to learn and code things like payment and shipping integrations. I charge the equivalent of a what I would consider a small donation for the time spent. I could just as easily NOT do it and then they would be screwed.

That has nothing to do with what contribs are made by other people and if they are free or not. There are hundreds of free mods on the contributions page. Feel free to use those. I have no legal link to OpenCart or the brand. I only make modules that people ask for. No different than PrestaShop or Magento or even others like ZenCart or osC.. Like I said, if you don't want to use them.. dont! It's simple. There is nothing to even post about.

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Post by vimal » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:03 am

My 2 cents...

I helped my gf move from a company solution which didn't have all the features still charged 50 USD per month. It included hosting and shopping cart. In a year that is 600 USD.

I moved to opencart. Sure it did take time to learn and customize. But it is feature rich, elegant and serves our requirements superbly well. I purchased one module from Qphoria for USD 10. I pay 10 USD per month for server hosting. That means my total cost for a year is USD 130 USD.

I am happy. Qphoria is happy. My gf is happy ;) ...what is the big deal with someone charging some money for their time. After all they could have done other things which could have been better for them. But they chose to do something that could help other people. I am more than happy to appreciate it with a nominal fee...

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Post by myopen » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:31 am

Repeat ... I must have done 200 times ... The work of programmers is fantastic .. are all very good and wonderful modular structure. I only said that to pay 35 euros / dollars for a fmodule for me so much. There are programs to create professional sites that cost 35 euros ... is a software ... not a module, indeed, those who create software provides sections dedicated to free modules. is my opinion, to pay 35 euros / dollars for a module is a fiction, only that people who understand just has no idea of the real value of the programming. If the module is requested by a person for a particular purpose and singular could cost as much as $ 600 as stated Daniel. If a module makes public can not rely 35 euros, is out of the market ... is here that I do not understand. A program has a gain is fine ... But that is to steal from the people who understand little about code, not that! Again, there are professional programs to build websites that cost 35 euros, but you can make as many sites as you want and the program is always updated and has sections with modules always free. For me, paying 35 euros / dollars for a module to be sold to the public is not aware of the market value. This sorry ... are good programmers, but they do not understand much of how to value and price the work.

Mine is just an opinion .. am in favor of programmers and rightly earn money for their intelligent modules. I just say, that should give the right value and price, which is not good and he who believes in doing a deal, is really only paying so much something that should cost much less, since it is a form for all and is not dedicated only to customer ... my opinion is a Democrat ... I say thanks to the program for all the great things they do and giving aid to the forum. I expressed an opinion and give advice. Can enjoy como no ... remains only a view of a user as all that does not offend anyone. thanks daniel .. thanks OpenCart ... Thanks to all those that make it better. I like to breathe the air of a family that was long ago. I'm in love with OpenCart and also from the forum ... I'm only sorry that lately has become very commercial .. almost as a premature thing.

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Post by Qphoria » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:51 am

myopen wrote: Mine is just an opinion
This whole thread could have been shortened to just that. You don't want it, then don't pay it. Just like everyone else on here, they sell "products"... my product is my code. If someone is charging too much for a laptop do you buy it somewhere else? or email them telling them their price is too high?

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Post by myopen » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:12 pm

In fact, I've never bought modules and less'll buy from you, you see your complicity with OpenCart (such as an agreement) ... soon you'll find you at home to bring business modules. There is the forum where you do not put the link to some of your module. I as a user, just the live forum, I would like to see answers to questions, bring no link to Wends. As mentioned, it is my opinion of your involvement with the project OpenCart, otherwise all this freedom to campaign for a website that sells modules, Daniel would not you date ... I think there are agreements. I've never seen a forum where open source programs for each post, any theme, a particular person is involved, "Always" to highlight the solution that is given to buy the form from your site. These things are not allowed in forums dealing with opensorce, and if permitted, it is only in the area that says "business modules". This thread is annoying you because qphoria open our eyes a bit to people and you know very well that only take advantage of the situation and people who understand little of code ... is right that you earn .. But it is not right to do it incorrectly and out of the market. Look, I'm not the only person who sees someone in trouble if you let him die ... maybe you'll be so ... I say the beginning of the thread, you're a cynical person, you can see how you answer and you have no respect for people. Although I do not buy modules, it is said I can not express an opinion on ... is my opportunity to contest the fact that I'm tired of your business background help in every thread ... if you're so obsessed with profits, made by daniel open a section on business modules or anything that is commercial in nature .. So you're happy and there you can send all the links you want. The discourse on the cost too high modules not only true for you ... is also for all those who sell modules OpenCart. I want to live a forum where there is an air of real help, not a constant sales and advertising. when I lived other forums if anyone dared to put advertising links to your site was banned. From your answers, dear qphoria, you know what pulls you in because this thing. REPEAT: I AM for the programs and it is right that they can earn ... HOWEVER ... thing is to create a software ... is one thing to create a module. IT CAN NOT SELL A FORM FOR THE PRICE OF A SOFTWARE PROFESSIONAL .. not because the module is worth 35 € / $, because it addresses a big audience, so its market value must necessarily fall, more if the same module was originally created just for 1 customer.

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Post by fido-x » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:41 pm

Some modules or modifications trickle down from a client who has paid you to do some custom mod for them. Is it fair to the client if I then turn around and give it away for free?

Some modules are built for personal reasons, someone sees it on your site and posts on the forum "I like that. Can I have one too?". Yes, of course you can, for a price.

Other modules (like the banners module) which is designed to advertise products and services being offered by other sites, thereby providing you with an income stream derived from selling advertising not product. Someone suggested a "Google AdSense Module" somewhere in the forum. Daniel's reply was "Why?". After all, something like that just drags in advertising from your competitors. By the way, if you want a Google AdSense module, I've got one for sale ;D

A developer could spend a week working on a module that adds some extra functionality to OpenCart. That's 5 days multiplied by 6 hours per day multiplied by $120 per hour = 5 x 6 x $120 = $3,600. The developer decides to make it a commercial module with a price of $20. The developer then has to sell 180 copies of that module to make it financially viable.

I provide a range of mods myself:
  • Homepage Package
    Events Calendar
    News Pages and Module
    FAQ pages
These, of course, will be remaining free. Other modules that I have available, are generally ones I built for myself (eg. Image Gallery, Google AdSense) or have been paid to build for a client (PDF Viewer, Image Manager, Banners). Subsequently, there will be a cost involved for those.

As Q said:
Qphoria wrote:... You don't want it, then don't pay it. Just like everyone else on here, they sell "products"... my product is my code.
Code is also my product. Some of it is free, some of it isn't.

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Post by Qphoria » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:53 pm

fido-x wrote:With regard to the issue of "Free and Open Source", this does not necessarily mean free (as in price), it means you have the freedom to use (either commercially or non-commercially) or the freedom to modify for your own use. The term "Open Source" means you get the source code, rather than a pre-compiled program. PHP, by nature is "Open Source", since you get the source code.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this bit.

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Post by fido-x » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:46 pm

Further to what I said here:
fido-x wrote:A developer could spend a week working on a module that adds some extra functionality to OpenCart. That's 5 days multiplied by 6 hours per day multiplied by $120 per hour = 5 x 6 x $120 = $3,600. The developer decides to make it a commercial module with a price of $20. The developer then has to sell 180 copies of that module to make it financially viable.
A week after you've created this module, you've got to go through the whole process again, because the next version of OpenCart has been released and you have to update what you've done, although it doesn't take as long the second (or third or fourth or etc.,) time around.
Qphoria wrote:
fido-x wrote:With regard to the issue of "Free and Open Source", this does not necessarily mean free (as in price), it means you have the freedom to use (either commercially or non-commercially) or the freedom to modify for your own use. The term "Open Source" means you get the source code, rather than a pre-compiled program. PHP, by nature is "Open Source", since you get the source code.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this bit.
That's pretty much what it says in the license. Does anyone actually read the license?

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Post by myopen » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:06 am

fido-x wrote:
A developer could spend a week working on a module that adds some extra functionality to OpenCart. That's 5 days multiplied by 6 hours per day multiplied by $120 per hour = 5 x 6 x $120 = $3,600. The developer decides to make it a commercial module with a price of $20. The developer then has to sell 180 copies of that module to make it financially viable.

I provide a range of mods myself:
  • Homepage Package
    Events Calendar
    News Pages and Module
    FAQ pages
These, of course, will be remaining free. Other modules that I have available, are generally ones I built for myself (eg. Image Gallery, Google AdSense) or have been paid to build for a client (PDF Viewer, Image Manager, Banners). Subsequently, there will be a cost involved for those.

As Q said:
Qphoria wrote:... You don't want it, then don't pay it. Just like everyone else on here, they sell "products"... my product is my code.
Code is also my product. Some of it is free, some of it isn't.

No .. I think 3600 euros for a form (though a week of work) .. is crazy !!!!!!!!!! .... put your feet on the ground ..... adobe master suite costs 3,000 euros, but there are all the programs created by many programmers. Ashamed to say that your module costs 3600 euro for 5 hours a day of work (7 days) .. Shame! ... there are people who did not work ... going to lift bricks for 10 euros a day for the global crisis ... and you do genes code opensource and pretend that a person will pay 3600 euros for a form? ... I'd give you a hoe and fi would understand what is the real work. Incredible ... These people not only take advantage of open source ... but believe that you can charge gold for small modules .. an fido-x (o q-phoria) says that one of his module costs 3600 euro ... but who you think you are? ... for me if you are in this forum is because you have little work to do ... prices and invented hallucinating ... really .. ashamed of what you say. Think of real programmers who create wonders como la suite Adobe .. those are money well wonder .. and not to people who want to pay gold to 4 pages in php .. but I with 3600 euro (as he says fido-x) Prestashop call the team that makes me a super store e-commerce ... for a wonder. If I want to do better .. includes a program from 40 euros and there is much in it. As I say in the title of the forum .. "to reflect" ... are out of the world ... I have always said that PHP programmers living on Mars ... I think they were righ

Excuse my bad English
Last edited by myopen on Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by DannyMacD » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:08 am

ok... just to give support to the amazing community of OC..

i am very much new to coding. have a huge passion and want to learn it but you know what my brain is a tad rubbish and i rely on people like Q, Fido-x, Daniel ETC to develop some amazing solutions so i can start my company launch online in 2010..

i have handed a fair amount of donations and purchased commercial modules that do an amazing job.. (even offered my server to fido to use :))

i feel that if there are commercial sections and people buy them.. there obviously is a return on investment for the person buying it. (otherwise why would they buy it right??)

you pay for what you get now days but to be honest i have used a few solutions and i cant believe that i never found OC earlier.


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Post by Xsecrets » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:23 am

myopen maybe you can scrounge by where you live on 10euros a day, but were I live and I'm sure many of the other developers on this forum live you would not be able to have a roof over your head and food in your stomach for that money much less be able to afford a computer to code on.

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Post by TBT » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:39 am

*throws in a sleeping bag* & *Rations* :P

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Post by myopen » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:40 am

I still maintain that the modules developed for OpenCart should cost 1 to 2 euros .. no more .. is an insult to those who make high-level programming. To say that a form OpenCart may even cost $ 3200 (for 5 hours to 6 days) is crazy! ... modules OpenCart, albeit giving more functionality to the application, are for a mass audience and really not worth much ... So, if a module for fido-x (and q-Phoria) should cost $ 3200 (5 hours per day for 6 days) .... daniel throughout the program it should ask .... $ 1,000,000 ????
It seems to me that there are programmers who are in the forum OpenCart, are excellent writing PHP, but I am increasingly convinced that marketing and economics do not understand anything .. YOU ARE OUT OF THE MARKET!

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Post by Qphoria » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:06 am

Ya.. "WE" are the ones out of the market....
Fido was explaining the cost of module development, not the price for each person to pay.
This is called business.
You hire a plumber to do the work you can't. He charges $50 just to show up. It might take him 1 min to plunge the toilet. Still $50

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Post by i2Paq » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:19 am

Maybe this topic should be closed.

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Post by myopen » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:43 am

Why close a topic so important? Who knows why, where there is interest on money you do not always want to close debate. Look ... Communication is a clean ... a comparison between users and programmers, why should it be closed to people who are partisan? I should point out that most of those who responded are programmers, and 2 / 3 people who want to buy the sympathy of the program ... I say my thoughts and do not hurt anyone .. maybe do a little harm in q-Phoria, which may sell for less if people read this topic, and understand that many of its off-market prices and exaggerated ... but we are not just q.phoria ... even fido-x, imaginetech, and all the others. For me the forms OpenCart should not cost more than $ 1-2 .... I can understand $ 5 for a module that helps significantly the life ... but no more. I remind you that designs websites for programs cost between 30 and 50 euros .. full of plugins, modules, etc.
... to reflect ...

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Post by Qphoria » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:06 am

LOL I don't feel harmed. You have your opinion. That's fine. I suppose I could bring down my prices, but charge $1-$2 for every person who has a question on the forum that I help. This way it's cheaper.. is that better?

From now on all my posts are pay-per-view

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Post by myopen » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:42 am

I think reasons like a child ... and you do not know deal with maturity speeches. A man who answered so is a man who tagiona with their feet and not his head. Learn to accept criticism, both positive and negative, and to respond to what you think. Your last response is very childish ... and has nothing to do with the speech modules. Then .. I'll tell you ... your help in the forum, in 70% of the time broke through to your site advertising the sale of modules ... I think so you take a big advertising and is well worth your help / support. rest back to the same idea on the value of modules OpenCart ...

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