Post by nexiss » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:21 pm

So I was looking for a viable solution for an online store and stumbled on opencart, on first impression it looked good, but then on further investigation I realized than most of what I need, opencart doesn't do out of the box and I would need extensions, (Import stock, configurable bundled products using existing stock items etc), no problem I'll find an extension to do what I want, but that's easier said than done, when I do find an extension that comes somewhat close to what I need it's either ridiculously expensive as in nearly $300 or doesn't support the latest version of opencart or even both (considering magento does all of the mentioned out of the box), or I find a cheaper alternative and the author doesn't answer simple questions (week later and still waiting), I mean come on guys if you want people to use this platform at the very least the mod authors need to be answering questions, due to the lack of support, information, out dated and extortionate price of some mods I'm seriously considering using an alternative platform that gives me what I want, out of the box for free, it's not like the mod authors are trying to update the extensions to the latest version either because the version numbers go back as far as 1.X with no further updates.

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Post by paulfeakins » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:20 pm

nexiss wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:21 pm
(considering magento does all of the mentioned out of the box), or I find a cheaper alternative and the author doesn't answer simple questions (week later and still waiting),
If you're concerned about cost, then Magento probably isn't for you.

nexiss wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:21 pm
So I was looking for a viable solution for an online store and stumbled on opencart, on first impression it looked good, but then on further investigation I realized than most of what I need, opencart doesn't do out of the box and I would need extensions, (Import stock, configurable bundled products using existing stock items etc), no problem I'll find an extension to do what I want, but that's easier said than done, when I do find an extension that comes somewhat close to what I need it's either ridiculously expensive as in nearly $300 or doesn't support the latest version of opencart or even both
Could you be more specific? What functionality do you need exactly and what extension have you found?

nexiss wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:21 pm
I mean come on guys if you want people to use this platform at the very least the mod authors need to be answering questions, due to the lack of support, information, out dated and extortionate price of some mods I'm seriously considering using an alternative platform that gives me what I want, out of the box for free, it's not like the mod authors are trying to update the extensions to the latest version either because the version numbers go back as far as 1.X with no further updates.
Once you've used OpenCart for a little while, you'll get a feel for who are the good extension developers, ones like iSense, Clear Thinking, Jay Gilford, Qphoria etc. etc. (apologies to any I've missed out). Unfortunately the extension marketplace is a bit of a free-for all but this open model does encourage developers to get involved without having to pay heft up-front fees.

You will find that if you choose to work on your site with an experienced agency or freelancer, they will know all the best extensions to use for certain situations. You should check the Partner Page for those.

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Post by IP_CAM » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:56 am

Very disappointing ...
Well, I have a similar Problem, but more with those fellows, expecting to have found a
free shareware heaven, then to be confronted with stupid earthly matters, such as money,
required to spend, to make their sweet dreams come true.

But OC is no free heaven, it's just another business model, directed by a one Man show,
making his living out of sales, generated by smart fellows, adding their knowledge in form
of paid extensions.

So, before complaining about this, one should better familiarize himselfs with the Idea
behind Opencart, and if one does not like the Idea, then, just remove that OC Crab again,
and switch to something else, where everything is installed already, for free.

But if you find something, don't forget, to come here, to tell us about, if you really care,
to let other existing and future Online Shop Competitors participate, for free ... 8)

So, better get down to real Earth again, for your own good. Especially, since one does
not add some Bonus Points, by complaining about the System, the exact contrary could
be the case ...

Sorry for harsh words, but it needs to be said, once in a while.
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Post by paulfeakins » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:27 pm

IP_CAM wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:56 am
So, better get down to real Earth again, for your own good. Especially, since one does
not add some Bonus Points, by complaining about the System, the exact contrary could
be the case ...

Sorry for harsh words, but it needs to be said, once in a while.
Ernie
I wonder if the OP is an entitled millennial who thinks they should be provided with all the software they need to run their business and make money by talented developers working for free? :laugh:

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Post by johnp » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:57 am

My 2 pennyworth. Opencart gives a lot for free, has loads of very cheap and good extensions with knowledgeable developers who help for a few sheckels. Not much there to complain about in my view. As has been mentioned. if you want to find out what expensive really means look at some of the other platforms.

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Post by beelzebomb » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:47 pm

nexiss wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:21 pm
So I was looking for a viable solution for an online store and stumbled on opencart, on first impression it looked good, but then on further investigation I realized than most of what I need, opencart doesn't do out of the box and I would need extensions, (Import stock, configurable bundled products using existing stock items etc), no problem I'll find an extension to do what I want, but that's easier said than done, when I do find an extension that comes somewhat close to what I need it's either ridiculously expensive as in nearly $300 or doesn't support the latest version of opencart or even both (considering magento does all of the mentioned out of the box), or I find a cheaper alternative and the author doesn't answer simple questions (week later and still waiting), I mean come on guys if you want people to use this platform at the very least the mod authors need to be answering questions, due to the lack of support, information, out dated and extortionate price of some mods I'm seriously considering using an alternative platform that gives me what I want, out of the box for free, it's not like the mod authors are trying to update the extensions to the latest version either because the version numbers go back as far as 1.X with no further updates.
I have to say as a web developer, coming from WordPress to Opencart for when I have to use a 'shop' platform; yes - the lack of support and the often unprofessional or rude replies are a bit of a shock. Especially when one takes into account the fact that developers might well be responsible for their clients' use of bank/credit card information. This is a 'help' forum, and as such replies should be professional and relevant to assist the original question/comment. I've fast come to the conclusion that this is just the way it is and it will always be this way - so if you want more support (or just some!) there ARE ways to make WordPress work for shop-style websites with Woocommerce - though bearing in mind WP is not a platform designed for selling like Opencart is, so whether this is easy to utilise I cannot comment, but you might find it worthwhile to look into.

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Post by johnp » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:25 pm

For me and my clients Opencart works. Yes there are things to learn and consider and even issues that crop up along the way. A lot of the problems I see are from installing extensions. My stance now is to use Opencart, whatever version, with as few add ons as possible. Keep it simple and let it do the job it's designed for. I have clients selling products and making a living simple, slick light Opencart 1.5.6.5 based sites. I manage several sites that are reliable, genetrate no errors, are stable and running with no problems or hassle. I don't want to constantly be looking for fixes and my paying clients just want their sites running, are not interested in upgrades and generally just want a live site that just works. I have developed a model which works for me and my clients. I'm sticking with that. The best setup I have come up with is to use my stable 1.5.6.5 based model and charge a modest monthly fee for overseeing the site and keeping it live. That works for me and works for my clients. Keep it simple. Simples. :)

The devs and pros on here are generally good. For me a lot of the frustration as someone with good opencart experience is to try and communicate with clients and newbies who don't. It's like we're speaking different languages. What is a simple issue to a pro is often a major headache to a client. Clients often want to get involved and understand Opencart to a high degree when in my opinion they don't need to. In a perfect world the cleint sells the product and manages the catalogue and orders and the pro keeps it running sweet and does upgrades and expansions. If the pro charges for that is it a crime? The client often makes £££s from selling products but has a problem with paying pennies for support.

Daniel has put the hours in developing Opencart, pros have put the time in learning it, sellers make money from using it but it seems charging to support clients or heaven forbid charging for extensions is a taboo. That is just how I see it.

Peace. :)

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Post by johnp » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:45 pm

Another thing that really frustrates me is seeing people post for help for problems and bounce messages back and forward for weeks trying to get a free answer. I and others like me see on a daily basis problems we could fix commercially for not a lot of money. Probably in minutes in some cases. But, back and forward the messages go, the client moans about losing sales, losing money, help help help and when you offer to help for money. Silence or attacks. A big dose of realism would really help for some people. Making an honest living is not a crime. At least not yet. :)

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Post by xxvirusxx » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:27 pm

I have almost same opinion.

As non-developer I have converted almost 25 free extensions and nobody (who download) donate 1 cent for effort and complains for Support....like he paid me 10.000.000 euro.

So from now one I will convert free extension and I will keep on my hard drive.

@nexiss
Is better to hire a good company and you don't spent 300$ just only 10$. And when you find that company tell me too.
Isn't you?
viewtopic.php?f=202&t=209251&p=743797#p743797

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Post by johnp » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:55 pm

There's lots of us in the same boat xxvirusxx. Here's a conversation I had recently:

Me: Hi. How can I help?
Client: I have an Opencart based 1.5.6.4 site that has stopped working. I'm losing around £150.00 worth of sales a day.
Me: Ok. I'll take a look.
Me: I can see the problem and can fix that for £30.00
Client: Ah. I'm losing £150.00 of sales a day and don't have that kind of money.
Me: Ok. I'll take a promise you'll pay and I'll fix it now. In a few days when you're back to making money again you pay me £30.00.
Client: Ah. I was hoping you could identify the problem and show me how to fix it. I'm losing £150.00 of sales a day.
Me: I've just given you a solution.
Client: Ok but I really need to get this fixed as I'm losing £150.00 of sales a day. I'm struggling.
Client: Thanks but I'll look elsewhere.
Me: Ok. By then.*

*3 weeks later the site is still broken. The client is stuck with expensive stock that has an expry date fast approaching. He'll probably end up throwing it away.

Obviously the guy doesn't understand the principle of "Return on Investment".

The above is fairly common for me. I have no answer for it. You can't fix stupid. It's never been done. I'm sure all clients think devs and pros are loaded, have speedboats, drive 911 Turbos and live in a large 7 acre property. Little do they know.

Feel free to share your horror stories. Lol. :)
Last edited by johnp on Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Post by xxvirusxx » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:03 pm

Is very funny

He loose every day 150 but can't pay you 30 :laugh:

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Post by johnp » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:05 pm

It's as funny as f@@k but also unbelievable at the same time. I have loads more like that. The idiot's seem to find me. Lol.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for Opencart users running, managing and fixing their own sites. If they can do it. If they can't, and their livelyhood is at stake, pay someone to fix it. I can tinker with my car, change the spark plugs and the oil, change the air filter but I can't change the cam belt. Guess what, it needs doing so I'm taking it to a local garage and they're doing it for me. For that I'm paying and I have no problems with that.

I really think for the sake of mankind they need to teach this stuff in school.

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Post by kestas » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:44 am

It is funny, that people which planning make business, will earn money by selling his products and so on, expect get all for free... :D

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Post by IP_CAM » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:25 am

Well, - a fish starts to smell on it's head ... - would probably be a quite 'matching'
phrase, because, after coming to OC, that's, what a Reader is confronted with:
---

Code: Select all

The best FREE and open-source eCommerce platform.
Everything you need to create, scale and run your business.
Simple to start. Easy to run.
Start your free OpenCart eCommerce store now!
Open-Source and Free.
Open source means transparent. OpenCart comes with free downloads and updates. 
Zero monthly fees.
Support You Can Trust.
We’ve got you covered. OpenCart offers free community  ... ... ... support.
OpenCart forums is a great way to get community support. With more than 110 000 registered 
members and 550 000+ posts you are part of one of the biggest ecommerce communities.
---
It's therefore understandable, that most OC Newbies expect to be Part of a huge
Community, and if only 1 out of 1'000 so-called Community Members would be active,
once in a while, this would possibly be a busy place, where one would be able, to
easy find answers and solutions. But the reality is more like 1 out of 10'000 ....

But, in reality, an Online Shopping Software can never be a Community Project, in
longer terms, because Online Shop Software means Business, and Competition, but
sure not friendship, or even supporting others, possibly even future Competitors,
just for the plain fun of it, or then, to feel good.

But real professional Online Shop Users would sure not depend on free Software,
based on a single Person Idea and Authority only. It takes a Network of Brainpower,
to keep a Pro-Software work, over an extended period of time, and such cannot be
achieved, by relying on coincidence on Github.com or similar platforms only. And OC
is widely known already on the Web, to invest little time into valid and Newbie-
understandable technical Documentation.

As an example, the OC 1.5. to 1.5 Upgrade Info File, still beeing part of most OC v.2.x
Releases, but nobody ever had the power, or mood, to do anything about it. With the
consequence, that many screwed up, and then, came here, to always ask the same
upgrade-freak questions, again+again.

It might be an easy way, to get up to 550'000+ Postings, but if one would remove all the
crab and nonsense, even only, since Versions changed from 1.5.6.4 to v.2.x, there would
not have been much left, to be qualified as 'very hepful' information, useful for Newbies,
mostly not even aware of the Version they use, I assume. And in many cases, Numbers
don't mean anything, where only Values count.
And still today, for NON-Github Insiders, it's rather hard, to find out for sure, what Version
Number it's all about.
---
I also was an OC Newbie once, and I recall my first Posting I made, and the reply I received.
It was neither amusing nor encouraging , and if this Site would not have consisted out of
a few thousand free Extensions, and a lot of usefull older Forum Information as well, I
would probably never have returned again, just to feel like another Idiot. But I did not
come, to make friends either, I was looking for Code and Wisdom, as offered + published.
And I already knew, how it works in some forum places, so, it was nothing really new.
---
So, who is to blame ? Or who to praise ?
Nobody, by Nature of things. It's nobody's fault, if someone expects more, than one gets, if
one downloads OC, or any other Online Software, which comes for free. And one should never
believe Advertizing in the first place, especially, if something is offered for free.

And for those, able to handle OC, it's a great Software, but not everybody is able to handle
such 'Tools', and this means, that Money might come into the Game, if one decides, to do any
Custom Work on an existing OC Software. I gained a lot of Wisdom, but I also tried, like many
others before, and hopefully after me, to give something back, to so add my part to the Game.

And I even made ONE Friend here, at this Forum. But ~109'993 so-called Members probably
don't even know, that this Function exists, since they did not come here, to make Friends, or
get smart about the Forum Settings and Functions, but get Free support. Urgent, and as soon
and easy to understand as possible. As published and freely offered on OC Page One.

Harsh Conditions, to keep enthusiastic, after a while, for most I ever knew around here. It's the
only explanation to me, why so many disappeared, during my time here. But it's all about
Competition too, and from that point of view, it's logical, that a Place like this will and can not
consist out of Friends, but Competitors, either as User, or then Coder. And if a Dev cannot make
Money, it's just of no use, to play free Clown here.

With a very few Exceptions, by Nature of Things. Like Nut's like me, just doing it, to get a little
smarter. But it kept me from looking online Porno's, or doing some other Nonsense at the Web,
during the past 5 Years, and I'm satisfied with what I learned, by use of this fantastic Software,
the OC Forum, and the giant amount of Knowledge, surrounding it.

But it still takes many Moon's, as Indians say, until I only tested all of the Goodies, still unorderly
placed somewhere on my Disks. And once in a while, a real Goodie still shows up, found by
plain accident, some place in a strange foreign-language Zip. And my friend Googie makes
the work for me, to find out, what it means and does ....

It was Reason enough, to try to give something back, whereever I felt, to be able to assist.
But since I now have, what I need, I am no longer able to, since OC kept on moving on,
while I decided to stay, with my (1. official) Wife, my XP, and my OC-Version, as long as they
work swell, as I want them to do. It's them, to follow my Code, not me, to follow their
Versions. But that's now really just a Joke ... , at least, when it comes to my Wife ... :-)

Good Luck!
Ernie
Last edited by IP_CAM on Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:01 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by khnaz35 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:55 am

Its look like heat in the Air, well i would say its totally up to user that whether he/she want to Use OC or Some Online solutions, Yes that's true that OC is a free and opensource software as well as easy to use. But yes for sure if you want modification in codes and want extra functionalities have to pay for it. Because nothing is like free cheese, people out there are also spending their time to make software for their livings.

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Post by johnp » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:04 am

As I've said before I try and keep my clients Opencart sites as default as possible. I'll install the essential extensions but that's it. One of the worst things for me is when my clients discover the Opencart marketplace. That's when the requests start. "Can you install this", "can you install that". That's when the problems start. Most of the extensions I install at the clients request end up being removed. What you actually need to get selling online and what the client thinks you need are very different. Just because an extension exists in the marketplace doesn't mean you need it. That is, unless you actually do but that's mostly not the case in my experience.

Opencart is a great system. Leave it alone as much as possible, focus on selling products not seeing how good you are at installing unnecessary extensions and you'll do just fine. If you want to play, explore and tinker set up a play area Opencart. Don't risk sales on a live site.

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Post by khnaz35 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:27 pm

johnp wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:04 am
Opencart is a great system. Leave it alone as much as possible, focus on selling products not seeing how good you are at installing unnecessary extensions and you'll do just fine. If you want to play, explore and tinker set up a play area Opencart. Don't risk sales on a live site.
Yes that's true even once myself i had extension from isens lab and they released the update for my version i just downloaded it and install it on the live website, somehow something went wrong and my whole website front and admin part turn into blank page, Thanks to technology there are still ways to connect via ftp/hosting panel and remove the changes or restore it entirely.

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Post by OSWorX » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:03 pm

IP_CAM wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:25 am
But, in reality, an Online Shopping Software can never be a Community Project, ..
Cannot agree with this.
The major problem - and it arises the longer this forum exists - is, that a 'Community' means talk with each other.
Means also, not blablabla and useless stuff.

The majority here of new users and posts are looking for help.
Well, this is a dedicated 'help' forum.

But, if the orginal poster is not willing to write the must important elements (which OpenCart Version exactly is used, which theme is used, which extensions are installed, which browser is used, maybe additonally the basics of the server and which system) and the exact error, those are willing to help wasting in 99% of these requests ... time!

Time in asking again and again .. until the original poster may provide the required details and someone is able to help him.

Or - the second case - no replies are made and that's it.
Again, time wasted.

The third category of posters here are parttime developers, hobby developers, small agencies (or bigger) who all are trying to get help for free.
But they get money from their clients!

All three types mean for professionals: wasting of time.
And mean also, loosing the interest in providing help here.
Because 'time is money'.

As mentioned by some others already, OpenCart is a system to earn money.
Not one user of OpenCart with an own shop or an agency doing business with or for OpenCart may expect help for free.

Everybody should be clear, that if help is needed, it can be tried to get it here.

But if those 'semi professionals' think that they get it for free, they are in the wrong place.
Or those try to post as a helpless, desperate end user and finally we discover he/she is not - no help for free is given.

At the end, while in many cases a help can be given for free, in some cases this help has to be paid.
That's the business and the world we are living.

The faster all posters here realize that, the easier it is for all to help each other.
And that is what a 'Community' is.

Beside this, a 'help' forum does not implicit that the help is always free.

I for myself may not be the 'charming' guy or 'everybodies darling'.
That is not my intention, but as long as I can see that help is needed and the poster is willing to work together, he will get help from me also for free.
And not only here in the forum as many users can confirm.

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Forumregeln [de]: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=114208
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Post by paulfeakins » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:39 am

beelzebomb wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:47 pm
the lack of support
Questions asked in the forum are answered on a daily basis by experienced developers, myself among them, for free. Further, there are literally hundreds of OpenCart partners who are willing and able to help with any issue for reasonable fees if you ask in the Commercial Support forum.

beelzebomb wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:47 pm
often unprofessional or rude replies are a bit of a shock. Especially when one takes into account the fact that developers might well be responsible for their clients' use of bank/credit card information.
Ask a lazy half-assed question, get a short answer, but that doesn't say anything about the trustworthiness of anyone involved.

beelzebomb wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:47 pm
This is a 'help' forum, and as such replies should be professional and relevant to assist the original question/comment.
As I've said, I check questions daily and answers are very good if the asker has bothered to give enough info to make helping them possible.

beelzebomb wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:47 pm
I've fast come to the conclusion that this is just the way it is and it will always be this way - so if you want more support (or just some!) there ARE ways to make WordPress work
As above, questions are answered daily so I'm not really sure where you're getting this idea from.

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Post by straightlight » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:10 am

Quite a long discussion on the topic, I notice. In general, people posting about their dissatisfaction on the forum with expected prompt replies may believe that everybody are meant for everything. Well, unfortunately, the reality is on this forum that despite the mount of categories of posting that may be posted on an everyday basis are posted among general but uncategorized forum sections.

Meaning, if an OP expect to have a fast response, forum supporters would first expect to be brought to their attentions from the sections on the forum where they would normally be most relative categorically. In other words, I don't speak Chinese and I don't speak Korean nor Netherlands languages which means, theorically, it wouldn't be the best place to post for an English topic as few forum users may do sometimes.

Aside from the languages topics, there are also people who posts for extensions issues in the general support section of the forum. The significant of the general support section is about collecting this huge pile of … in one place and the wonders that does not always come to mind where this topic should rather go. As the other way around, people may post several inquiries about custom jobs but in a public forum rather than this very eased and obvious section on the bottom of the forum called: Commercial Support which those events may be noticed due to issues that aren't about technologies.

Forum OPs who expect to have a quick response should first understand that time zones are in essence on this leftovered planet and that realtime response may not be seen or encountered 24 hours / day. While the 24 hours / day is not an obligation for anyone on the forum, unless saling paid extensions and does not mind being pinged on his phone regarding an email that just came in at 2am, forum supporters are not being timed whatsoever regarding the delay of response upon topic creation unless a financial dispute or a law representative insists otherwise.

If anyone should expect a fast response with fast typing asking for help, most people could end up disappointed since knowledge has never been a combination of how fast a person can type to reply to inquiries but simply to have the knowledge of what's been asked. Besides, I am the one who owns the speeding types on anyhow. ;D

Lastly, core bugs are still in effect for further adjustments on the latest release. However, it does not mean that no one should use it nor question about it but rather for testing purposes. If people expect a timely manner to get responses, simply look on Google or start a call center. Many people will be communicating with you during Business hours and if you like to hear the ringing sound of the phone all day, then you'll never be bored.

In reality, forum supporters are typically free to take the time as much as they need to reply on the topics. On the other hand, if we were to force forum OPs to post as fast as possible, how would the unknowledge people manage the situation? Simple as that.

The most generated errors being found on Opencart forum originates from contributed programming. The increased post counters are caused by redundancies of the same solutions that were already provided prior.

F. Rules:

- viewtopic.php?f=176&t=200480
- viewtopic.php?f=176&t=200804


Regards,
Straightlight


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