Post by reetp » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:34 pm

Well, go AWOL for a few weeks, pull latest from the repo, and find half my code is broken. And I thought it was just me being stupid.

Some of the changes in "more updates for better coding standard" are pretty savage and I am sure there are going to be lots of breakages. I'm not even sure they are entirely logical either.

Why change getProductDiscounts to getDiscounts etc etc? Removing the 'Products' makes no real difference apart, from breaking lots of code.

I'm was also reading https://github.com/opencart/opencart/wi ... -standards to see where this new 'standard' but it seems non existent. I also tried to find the code sniffer file, but that seems to have gotten lost as well.

"There is a PHP_CodeSniffer standard here: https://github.com/opencart/opencart/tr ... s/OpenCart"

Actually, no there isn't. There's a nice 404 instead.

Not exactly encouraging devs to write decent code.

https://github.com/opencart/opencart/issues/7899

Tabs? Nope - all my stuff uses spaces. Always has, always will. It's how my IDE is setup and my formatter uses spaces. Because a space is always a space, no matter where, but tabs for formatting mean layouts vary wildly in their look (I guess at least PHP doesn' t use them for syntax....). So no, it won't encourage me to add any code because I just never use tabs. Probably just me. Funnily Wordpress say
Your indentation should always reflect logical structure. Use real tabs and not spaces, as this allows the most flexibility across clients.
Exception: if you have a block of code that would be more readable if things are aligned, use spaces:
Ridiculous then. That's what is called double standards. I am surprised that a space is 'less flexible across clients'. You mean there are apps & stuff out there that don't use spaces? Well I never....

I digress.

Seems that no one is paying much attention to documentation and it shows. Having been a GSoD mentor last year working with a professional tech doc writer, it impressed on me even more than normal how important good docs are. It really needs tightening up. Broken links are really frustrating.

I REALLY like OpenCart, but good lord, some of it is badly thought out. An API where you can get some information, but not essential stuff like discounts? Really? It is just all over the place and inconsistent. In 2020 a decent API with full admin control is mandatory.

An API that doesn't actually let you modify the core thing in the Cart which is products? And the routine in there to get the Discounts is reliant on your customer groups? Writing our own hacks is just silly, and as a not brilliant coder I worry that I might leave holes in things.

OK, so I guess that it enables you to sell admin add ons or somesuch. But it really just looks half baked with some bits that you need, but not others.


Hey ho.

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Post by straightlight » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:45 pm

This topic has now been moved to the OpenCart 3.0 Support > Feedback section of the forum.

The most generated errors being found on Opencart forum originates from contributed programming. The increased post counters are caused by redundancies of the same solutions that were already provided prior.


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Post by Saahib » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:31 pm

This is the first thing I complained ie. missing docs, no standard coding protocol when I researched into OC3. Success of any opensource project heavily rely on its documentation and tight coding standards, as it will attract more developer which will ultimately result in improved software. But I got answers like, since you know php, twig and stuff, go figure it out yourself. .. quite encouraging.

Here project owner has done some really good work and really appreciate it but he should understand that one be open to contribution and suggestions of otheres by encouraging improved docs and deeper participation. eg. like code review before actual commit.

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Post by straightlight » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:44 pm

Saahib wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:31 pm
This is the first thing I complained ie. missing docs, no standard coding protocol when I researched into OC3. Success of any opensource project heavily rely on its documentation and tight coding standards, as it will attract more developer which will ultimately result in improved software. But I got answers like, since you know php, twig and stuff, go figure it out yourself. .. quite encouraging.

Here project owner has done some really good work and really appreciate it but he should understand that one be open to contribution and suggestions of otheres by encouraging improved docs and deeper participation. eg. like code review before actual commit.
I totally understand the frustration this can be brought to forum users whenever a forum supporter addresses such ways to forum members to consider using their own paths to develop required features while, in reality, it is also the reason why Opencart provides its services with Marketplace extensions as well as the Commercial Support section of the forum for more customized assignments with the platform that may be required by forum users. Opencart.com also has a list of partners from the Resources link at the top of the site that can be reliable to most users.

I can ensure you that forum moderators and administrators are regularly monitoring the post qualities submitted by forum users to keep the Opencart community in a positive environment.

The most generated errors being found on Opencart forum originates from contributed programming. The increased post counters are caused by redundancies of the same solutions that were already provided prior.


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Post by Saahib » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:56 pm

straightlight wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:44 pm

I totally understand the frustration this can be brought to forum users whenever a forum supporter addresses such ways to forum members to consider using their own paths to develop required features while, in reality, it is also the reason why Opencart provides its services with Marketplace extensions as well as the Commercial Support section of the forum for more customized assignments with the platform that may be required by forum users. Opencart.com also has a list of partners from the Resources link at the top of the site that can be reliable to most users.

I can ensure you that forum moderators and administrators are regularly monitoring the post qualities submitted by forum users to keep the Opencart community in a positive environment.
@straightlight,
See, I have been through so many posts in forum already that I almost know every active member and also their level of participation as well as skills. Your answers and posts are generally right on point and precise, good stuff. However, my point is that OC has great potential, its popular even after messed up ecosystem for developers, it could be far better and popular if it gets dev friendly.

Please understand, we can of course go to partners, buy extensions but what about other kind of people who wants to have control over things they do with their code , for those OC3 needs to rethink on its strategies as those are the people which will improve it. Alone, a dev can create a good code but not best, that's why opensource excels.

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Post by straightlight » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:05 pm

Saahib wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:56 pm
straightlight wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:44 pm

I totally understand the frustration this can be brought to forum users whenever a forum supporter addresses such ways to forum members to consider using their own paths to develop required features while, in reality, it is also the reason why Opencart provides its services with Marketplace extensions as well as the Commercial Support section of the forum for more customized assignments with the platform that may be required by forum users. Opencart.com also has a list of partners from the Resources link at the top of the site that can be reliable to most users.

I can ensure you that forum moderators and administrators are regularly monitoring the post qualities submitted by forum users to keep the Opencart community in a positive environment.
@straightlight,
See, I have been through so many posts in forum already that I almost know every active member and also their level of participation as well as skills. Your answers and posts are generally right on point and precise, good stuff. However, my point is that OC has great potential, its popular even after messed up ecosystem for developers, it could be far better and popular if it gets dev friendly.

Please understand, we can of course go to partners, buy extensions but what about other kind of people who wants to have control over things they do with their code , for those OC3 needs to rethink on its strategies as those are the people which will improve it. Alone, a dev can create a good code but not best, that's why opensource excels.
While you might be correct about the opensource excels, one of the many suggestions being posted about other kind of people that might have good codes can still be among the other categories of people who produces bad codes. There's already enough to deal with the extensions support with site support you wouldn't believe. Based on the idea to work, then one-to-the-too-many-people are expecting the codes to all work the same way while, in general - on a day-to-day scale, the reality is that forum users are each looking to resolved their own issues instead of helping others most of the time and rarely reports back to help others with a more general idea to reduce the incident requests. In other words, once their own issues resolved on their own ways, we may not hear back from those users or, on the other way around, we might hear back from them but on different topics with the same incident requests from topics that were already created or based on different topics where new topics gets created on their behalf - despite the quality of the code being provided to the people.

Which means, in order to consider the idea, everybody would have to be on the same page which we all know this ain't gonna happen unfortunately.

The most generated errors being found on Opencart forum originates from contributed programming. The increased post counters are caused by redundancies of the same solutions that were already provided prior.


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Post by Saahib » Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:30 pm

Your have perfectly valid reason but I am speaking from my experience. First of all, people who will contribute are really small in percentage but even 2-3 good person can make big difference, sometimes gives new life to whole project.
And for the purpose of Good Code, GIT has his way, infact, sometimes bad code gives you brilliant idea.

Anyways, I won't take long here, I presented my view and thats what stalling OC from being versatile and more popular. Rest is again upto lead developer as it has been always.

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Post by straightlight » Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:32 pm

Saahib wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:30 pm
Your have perfectly valid reason but I am speaking from my experience. First of all, people who will contribute are really small in percentage but even 2-3 good person can make big difference, sometimes gives new life to whole project.
And for the purpose of Good Code, GIT has his way, infact, sometimes bad code gives you brilliant idea.

Anyways, I won't take long here, I presented my view and thats what stalling OC from being versatile and more popular. Rest is again upto lead developer as it has been always.
Cannot agree with those feedback. Best practices are about using the best code solutions rather than focusing on the bad ones as I encourage everyone to do the same.

The most generated errors being found on Opencart forum originates from contributed programming. The increased post counters are caused by redundancies of the same solutions that were already provided prior.


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Post by Saahib » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:12 pm

You are being too literal here.
When there is bad code, you are not supposed to use but sometimes guy with bad has good idea such as feature or improvement.

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Post by straightlight » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:29 pm

Saahib wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:12 pm
You are being too literal here.
When there is bad code, you are not supposed to use but sometimes guy with bad has good idea such as feature or improvement.
Nevertheless, since you're referring to features, even by publishing new ideas are still in the hopes as much for buyers as it may be by other programmers to see clean codes especially when the need of troubleshooting the issues. One to many people should wonder how pleasant it really is to dig into spaghetti codes all wrapped up in one line or attached with other variable types when there are definitely other clean ways to present the codes. It's simply common sense on that end.

The most generated errors being found on Opencart forum originates from contributed programming. The increased post counters are caused by redundancies of the same solutions that were already provided prior.


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Post by Saahib » Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:32 am

Lets end the discussion here because clearly I am not able to explain what I have experienced.
May be you can join some active project on Github, try to contribute some code there not because you have to but because it makes you happy even without getting anything return, you will see the process and then understand. Its two way process, people learn from each other, help each other and ultimately they together improves the project, one or other way.

But if you have not done, try to join some active project and contribute there. (not one where you get some benefit in return).

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Post by straightlight » Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:07 am

Saahib wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:32 am
Lets end the discussion here because clearly I am not able to explain what I have experienced.
May be you can join some active project on Github, try to contribute some code there not because you have to but because it makes you happy even without getting anything return, you will see the process and then understand. Its two way process, people learn from each other, help each other and ultimately they together improves the project, one or other way.

But if you have not done, try to join some active project and contribute there. (not one where you get some benefit in return).
AFAIK, I am already on Github and contributing for the Opencart's master branch. The reason why you'd indicate the above is because you weren't aware of it. If you'd visit the Opencart Github namespace more often, you may notice I am moderating there as well as working on the forked version of the master branch regularly as well as working on the Wiki documentation when needed.

The most generated errors being found on Opencart forum originates from contributed programming. The increased post counters are caused by redundancies of the same solutions that were already provided prior.


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Post by Saahib » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:18 pm

Saahib wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:32 am
Lets end the discussion here because clearly I am not able to explain what I have experienced.
May be you can join some active project on Github, try to contribute some code there not because you have to but because it makes you happy even without getting anything return, you will see the process and then understand. Its two way process, people learn from each other, help each other and ultimately they together improves the project, one or other way.

But if you have not done, try to join some active project and contribute there. (not one where you get some benefit in return).
Read between the lines, have already considered that. There is difference between duty and being volunteer.

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Post by straightlight » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:50 pm

Saahib wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:18 pm
Saahib wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:32 am
Lets end the discussion here because clearly I am not able to explain what I have experienced.
May be you can join some active project on Github, try to contribute some code there not because you have to but because it makes you happy even without getting anything return, you will see the process and then understand. Its two way process, people learn from each other, help each other and ultimately they together improves the project, one or other way.

But if you have not done, try to join some active project and contribute there. (not one where you get some benefit in return).
Read between the lines, have already considered that. There is difference between duty and being volunteer.
But if you have not done, try to join some active project and contribute there. (not one where you get some benefit in return).
The lines have been read in-between. You are also addressing that I should join some active project and contribute there (not one where you get some benefit in return). That's already being handled from my Github namespace where the free work is being progressively worked into.

This topic will be locked.

The most generated errors being found on Opencart forum originates from contributed programming. The increased post counters are caused by redundancies of the same solutions that were already provided prior.


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