Post by dramony » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:10 pm

It would also be nice for the Breadcrumb:

When you click on the product from the home page you will get:
Home > Category 1 > Product 1

When you search for a product and click on that product from search, you will get:
Home > Category 1 > Product 1

It will also be better if:
After clicking on the Product from anywhere, the category tree will automatically collapse accordingly:

Sample:
http://demo.opencart.com

if i click on Apple Cinema 30" from anywhere(homepage, category, search):

the outcome should be like this:
http://demo.opencart.com/index.php?rout ... duct_id=42

(look at the left side ---> CATEGORIES automatically collapsed)

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Post by Qphoria » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:18 pm

dramony wrote:It would also be nice for the Breadcrumb:
yes its been mentioned a lot.. even by you.. it would be nice.

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Post by wormytux » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:47 pm

Hi Guys,

Just woke up.. i was a bit shocked that the thread earn too many post. this was just last night, right? :o :o :o

Anyways, is 1.4 stable now? Im just about to test it.. ;D

Nice interface Daniel! Great work!

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Post by OSWorX » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:12 pm

Qphoria wrote:remember, for each thing feature you want daniel to add to the core, that means he has to support it, slowing down releases and other new features.
Can only agree with this.
But - specially - a shopping cart should offer an import/export feature as standard.

Of course it could be done by a 3PD, but if the framework changes this extension might get broken!
And developing (froma 3PD perspective) would be easier if OC would have been more hooks/triggers.

So having some core functions which also supported by the developer(s) should be the best way for things like this.

And i do not think that new features are more important then this import/export?

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Post by OSWorX » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:59 pm

Qphoria wrote:Perhaps best I should look into some proper version control system with merge support. Never a big fan of svn and cvs is garbage... For now I'll just clean up and start clean with 1.4.0 code. Hopefully, this last address array is the end of the big changes to these files.
Use http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/ with I am working since many years.
Can be very easeliy installed on a local development server (e.g. XAMPP or WAMPP) and is also accessable from the editor (if he supports that like phpDesigner or Zend).

Additionally to this, i recommend http://winmerge.org/ - exactly you need to merge something.
Works also in conjunction with Tortoise SVN.

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Post by gocreative » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:39 pm

My view is that OpenCart should be updated as follows:
  • The next release: Fix all minor bugs from v1.4.0 as soon as possible.
  • Then, fix all major bugs (i.e. those affecting most users or those with the most potential for security risks etc).
  • Then, fix any resulting/outstanding minor bugs.
  • Release v2.0 as a major upgrade, implementing as many new features as possible (providing most users will benefit from them). If this takes six months, so be it - the version prior to this should be relatively bug-free and working nicely by this point.
Basically, I think the current version includes almost everything a standard store operator would need, so the most important thing is to ensure that's fully working before undertaking any new works. I'd rather wait several months for a thoroughly tested major upgrade than have to tweak every OpenCart installation every few weeks to fix bugs or upgrade extensions.

Just my two cents.

And finally, to jump on the feature request bandwagon, my #1 desire would be a global options list which can be applied to any product, rather than having to enter every single detail for every product in a store. It's a nightmare...

Thanks Daniel and to all the contributors for their hard work. As soon as I release my first OpenCart store (for a client), I'll be making a considerable donation to Daniel.

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Post by Qphoria » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:18 pm

Qphoria wrote:..... Never a big fan of svn ...
as a developer, I think I know about the most popular tools :) Doesnt mean I like them.

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Post by lowlands » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:51 pm

furiousweebee wrote:My view is that OpenCart should be updated as follows:
  • The next release: Fix all minor bugs from v1.4.0 as soon as possible.
  • Then, fix all major bugs (i.e. those affecting most users or those with the most potential for security risks etc).
  • Then, fix any resulting/outstanding minor bugs.
  • Release v2.0 as a major upgrade, implementing as many new features as possible (providing most users will benefit from them). If this takes six months, so be it - the version prior to this should be relatively bug-free and working nicely by this point.
Basically, I think the current version includes almost everything a standard store operator would need, so the most important thing is to ensure that's fully working before undertaking any new works. I'd rather wait several months for a thoroughly tested major upgrade than have to tweak every OpenCart installation every few weeks to fix bugs or upgrade extensions.

Just my two cents.

And finally, to jump on the feature request bandwagon, my #1 desire would be a global options list which can be applied to any product, rather than having to enter every single detail for every product in a store. It's a nightmare...

Thanks Daniel and to all the contributors for their hard work. As soon as I release my first OpenCart store (for a client), I'll be making a considerable donation to Daniel.
Hear, hear!

First of all, this is one great shopping cart. Daniel you're doing an outstanding job. However ...

I am a business consultant by trade and in the Dutch forum I have expressed my concern about the ongoing discussions about the structure of the program. Every organisation whether it is a production company or a software project is going through stages:
  • The first stage is the Pioneering Phase. This is when the product is developed and put into the market. The first customers come and help is needed by the Pioneer to handle the growth of the organisation.
  • The second stage is the Differentiation Phase. This phase is mainly characterised by al kinds of initiatives that pop up to handle all the demands that are put to the organisation, like fulfilling the wishes of the customers. Departments are created, functions are split into more specialised functions etc.
  • The third stage is the Integration Phase. This is usually accompanied by some sort of crisis because things have grown out of hand and can't be properly managed anymore. What the organisation is in need of is structure.
I don't know if this fully applies to OC but there is a lesson to be learned. You want to do something drastic before a crisis hits. IMHO this needs to be done:
  • Daniel (or someone else) should start managing the project. Maybe this is not something that Daniel is good at or wants to do. What Daniel is good at - we know - is development so maybe his role is more the one of the Chief Technical Engineer. And we are not talking ownership here we are talking roles.
  • The organisation around OC needs some structure. Daniel should determin who the main contributers are to the development of OC and he should give them a more formal status and thus create a group of people that is able to decide toghether - Daniel should confer with these people - on the strategy for OC. What are we going to do first and what comes later, what are our goals for the short term, the intermediate term and the longer term. Etc. Just make sure the team does not only consist of coding geeks. You need management capability, sales talent, structural talent and development talent.(Install Skype and Bob's your uncle).
  • The structure should be accompanied by tools to start managing processes. Daniel himself mentioned Mantis other people have mentioned other programs that I have not a clue about. But you need tools. The threads in these forums are good examples. Bugreports, whishlists en Comments are in the same thread an noboby is able any longer to make heads or tales of it. The group I mentioned before can also decide on what tools the organisation is going to use.
  • The script itself needs structure. At the moment it is growing a lump here and a contri there and everytime there is an upgrade everyone has to start working like mad on repairs again. OC is a great script but loses out in that department to some of the competitors. So the management team should make some firm decisions to make sure the script will stay manageable ... otherwise it will die. Not today, not tomorrow but someday soon.
  • Daniel should also start thinking about his own survival. Not only by delegating tasks to others but also by securing an income for himself. Because when you can't survive on this, the project is surely in jeopardy. And none of us want that.
There is a lot more that can be said about this but I only want to put some ideas into some heads :)

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Post by zubmal » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:48 pm

I have installed it and very perfect.

Only the Analytic which is not working and displaying the codes at the footer of the pages.

But it excellence.

You have done a great job.

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Post by OSWorX » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:03 pm

zubmal wrote:I have installed it and very perfect.

Only the Analytic which is not working and displaying the codes at the footer of the pages.

But it excellence.

You have done a great job.

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Post by Daniel » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:32 am

Blogexecute wrote:If you want I'll explain the real problem, which is the reason why you messed with each new version.

In practice, Daniel does not allow anyone else to make any changes to the code is hand to decide just him!
I have let others do coding before and they made a hash of things. not everybody can code cleanly.
Blogexecute wrote:In fact, all the additional modules offered by the users have never been integrated by default!
So, nobody can say that he contributed to the development of OpenCart.!
I think I have used one other persons module to do a austraila shipping / payment system and thats it. I have never needed to look at any others code because I already know how to code shopping cart fetaures.
Blogexecute wrote:Then OpenCart is open source just to be tested by many users until the moment comes to a really stable version.
This is never going to happen. I have been coding opencart now for a long time and I still feel I can make money from using other methods rather than selling it.

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Post by OSWorX » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:47 am

@ Blogexecute: you are sounding a bit 'frustrated' ...
But the other 'side' of GPL is: you can start at every time your own fork of OC ....

@Daniel: maybe others (than you) are not so good in coding (and I must agree in this point - have seen too much the last 10 years), once you are at the point - of no return.
Which means: you have to trust into others.
Accepting code(parts) from others means NOT to take it and publish it - without testing.

Next thing is: if there would be a good documentation of the framework/API/etc. 3PD would have it been easier to develop (I know from my own past that writing docs are very time consuming, but in the meantime there are quite good tools 'on the market' which can help).

Finally: as already mentioned (today), OC is in the meantime not only one of xxx, no it could play a major role in shopping software.

At least: you have to make the right decision(s) which way OC will go ... but alone (as developer) it has not that future (I think) it could have.

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Post by i2Paq » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:55 am

Blogexecute wrote:Wauw, could you write a more friendly story, I guess not!
Well, thank you for your plain and simple "stick your OpenCart somewhere where the light does not shine, Daniel" reply (NOT).

I want to say more but I guess I will be banned for it.

@Daniel, you decide what will happen and when and I know that OpenCart and you are on the brink of importand decissions. Do not let the reply of Blogexecute get in your way of making them.

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Post by i2Paq » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:15 am

joomx wrote:
@Daniel: maybe others (than you) are not so good in coding (and I must agree in this point - have seen too much the last 10 years), once you are at the point - of no return.
Which means: you have to trust into others.
Accepting code(parts) from others means NOT to take it and publish it - without testing.

Next thing is: if there would be a good documentation of the framework/API/etc. 3PD would have it been easier to develop (I know from my own past that writing docs are very time consuming, but in the meantime there are quite good tools 'on the market' which can help).

Finally: as already mentioned (today), OC is in the meantime not only one of xxx, no it could play a major role in shopping software.

At least: you have to make the right decision(s) which way OC will go ... but alone (as developer) it has not that future (I think) it could have.
You know that Daniel is aware of some changes he maby has to make.
Give him the time to make them.

I think that it is more importand to change the way modules work then the ad-hock creating of a "dev-team".
Looking at the suggestions made in the last few days I think that a team that will beta-test, find solutions for know bugs and hand over the code + discus possible solutions is a GIANT first step, if this step is going to be taken.

Lets us all not forget that it's Daniel's baby and putting it in de hand of others is hard, ask any mother ;)

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:16 am

Well I dont see much problem with there being only one coder, mainly because it guarantees all the code will be done the same way.

However, I think more thought & structure needs to be put into versioning and what should/shouldn't be changed.

SMF, for example has 2 versions.
1.x and 2.x
Most 1.x mods work fine for 1.1.0, 1.1.1, 1.1.2, etc but in 2.x the module system changed so they don't work the same

Thus should be the same for OpenCart, at least when it gets to what would be considered a stable point. And I think it has reached that back around v1.2.8

I think if the versioning was handled a with a little more structure, it would at least let us offer
1.2.x mods
1.3.x mods
1.4.x mods
so point releases like 1.4.1 don't break mods from working.

That, however, requires at least 2 coders, and proper use of a version control system. One to work on new versions (1.2.x, 1.3.x, 1.4.x) and one to work on bug fix point releases that get merged into the latest (1.2.2, 1.2.3, 1.3.2, 1.3.7).

But for example, 1.3.4 was not a good version as it made major changes. It should have been 1.4, since the shipping module system was changed. Then 1.4 changed the template structure on both sides, which if you think about it, MVC, if the controller was really separate from the view, then it shouldn't matter if the template was changed.. So I think there is still some problem there.. And i think it worsened when we switch to this new children method of adding header, columns, etc from the controller. The "V" is heavily reliant on "C".

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Post by Xsecrets » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:59 am

Blogexecute wrote:.... fascists ink out things they do not like!! ... this is why they ended up in the muck
I has nothing to do with not liking your option. we have no problem with dissenting opinions the problem is that you are plain rude and abrasive.

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Post by lowlands » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:02 am

@Blogexecute
Using abrasive language is not going to get you anywhere. My posts were deleted in a different forum the other day, for expressing my opinion without using one swearword. So I am not a big fan of strickt moderation. And I believe that not letting people speak their mind creates the wrong atmosphere and bad will. But when you ruin the quality of the discussion by insulting people so other people have to react to your insults etc. etc. I would be all for deleting you account. On the other hand, if you could stay polite, your opinion could contribute. And oh, buy the way i2Paq and I are Dutch and we are known for our frankness to the point of being blunt. So we're not easily shocked.

@Everyone else
I think we should try to stay away from technical discussions at this point and talk more about the structure that will ensure that OC can develop, grow and thrive. I totally agree with joomx
it (OC) could play a major role in shopping software
From what I see now that isn't unattainable. Heck it is very likely . But only if you Daniel, make some clever decisions in the not too distant future on structuring things. You have some people right at your fingertips - meaning a few key impressions away - that can help you make them. Listen very closely to the comments of those who have proven to seriously contribute. Digest that information and make some decisions based on their insights.

Ease of integration of third party modules is one of those insights. Delegate some tasks but stay in controll yourself and beat the crap out of Magento.

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:13 am

Typically posts are not deleted unless they are extremely vulgar without merit, or in the case of someone spamming random thoughts into a thread that has no need for them.

Too often you goto forums and find a topic that may help, but its 8 pages long and 5 of those pages are wrong answers, smart ass answers, or just plan off-topic rambling. What's the point?

Normally topics are moved to other areas that they belong. lowland, I dont know about anyone deleting your posts, but they may have been split into another thread that was common to the discussion.

But in 6 weeks when someone wants to know how they can add SKU to their options, and they find 14 pages of spam and bs.. then the forum has lost it's purpose.

There are cases where:
1. A user will ask a question with a specific topic.
2. an answer is given
3. the answer is deemed wrong
4. another answer is given
5. then someone blurts something out of context
6. then finally the original poster says "It works great"
7. Then another person says "it works perfect"

in that case, after a week or so, I will likely delete posts 2,3, & 5 as it holds no value to the solution. But that is irrelevant at that point.

In the case of repeatedly hijacking a thread, eventually it needs cleaning. If this thread doesn't start talking about 1.4.0 again, it will need closing.

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Post by lowlands » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:22 am

No posts of mine were deleted in the OC forum. That was a totallly different forum for another script.

I would be all for opening another topic that addresses the structure issue that I raised and move the posts. But I felt that raising the discussion to a meta level would bring some clarity because so many posts in this particular forum address the structural side of releases in relation to modules and plugins. So by all means (re)move these posts.

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:40 am

I do agree that some of the more popular and "universally useful" mods like the homepage mod should be put into the core. Only Daniel can answer that for sure. There are a few universally useful mods that would be useful. But I think Daniel has his own list of "stuff" that he wants to get in there first. Then he may start taking requests or polls on what should be added.

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