OpenCart v1.4.0

Hi guys,

I read all posts about beta testing and changelogs for opencart. Have you heard about git (more info http://progit.org/book/)? Git can solve a lot of problems with developing opencart. If Daniel would commit changes in code instead of uploading whole versions, there will be nice order in versions and nobody would need beta versions because whole testing can be done during development. And there is nice hosting for projects at http://github.com

Xsecrets wrote:when you say the internal forum what forum do you mean.

It's our secret moderators forum

Daniel wrote:whats going to happen i that I will upload the new version to my google code hosting and post a link on the internal forum. hopefully I should get some feedback.

I know your bussy but have you read my PM?

Daniel wrote:whats going to happen i that I will upload the new version to my google code hosting and post a link on the internal forum. hopefully I should get some feedback.

then i will put the link on the download page.

the only thing i'm worried about is how non english characters are going to look and work sin ce i have changed the encoding of the database.

does this mean it will take forever (or never) coming out? it's already been over a month since the initially promised "a few days". people's who postponed adaptation based on this initial acknowledge have been screwed multiple times. all we want at this point is merely a stable bug fix version.

You excuse and more excuses, I do not understand what you want obtain, Daniel. This is creating a big distrust over of your project OpenCart.

For more than one month you are announcing a new update. And till now your has not contributed any update. This is not good.

Sincerely, this is not good for a project that only is administered by an alone person. This project can be that it comes some day in which it does not have continuity and does not serve for anything.

You till now have I throw a good project and that many users we are using thanks to you, but the users we cannot depend exclusively on you and do not accept good contributions for OpenCart of other advanced users who want to contribute freely.

Congratulations for your good work, you have demonstrated and have provided a good tool to us, but till now his continuity is insecure.

This is my opinion.

i2Paq wrote:

Daniel wrote:whats going to happen i that I will upload the new version to my google code hosting and post a link on the internal forum. hopefully I should get some feedback.

I know your bussy but have you read my PM?

can't you ask that on your secret moderator forum?

juanper wrote:You excuse and more excuses, I do not understand what you want obtain, Daniel. This is creating a big distrust over of your project OpenCart.

For more than one month you are announcing a new update. And till now your has not contributed any update. This is not good.

Sincerely, this is not good for a project that only is administered by an alone person. This project can be that it comes some day in which it does not have continuity and does not serve for anything.

You till now have I throw a good project and that many users we are using thanks to you, but the users we cannot depend exclusively on you and do not accept good contributions for OpenCart of other advanced users who want to contribute freely.

Congratulations for your good work, you have demonstrated and have provided a good tool to us, but till now his continuity is insecure.

This is my opinion.

Partly responsible may be your poor English, but I think what you've said is rather rude.
This thread was already locked once because of people whining that this or that wasn't progressing as they'd like. Give the man some breathing room and let him get his work done how he likes with some polite and helpful input.

maomaox wrote:

Daniel wrote:whats going to happen i that I will upload the new version to my google code hosting and post a link on the internal forum. hopefully I should get some feedback.

then i will put the link on the download page.

the only thing i'm worried about is how non english characters are going to look and work sin ce i have changed the encoding of the database.

does this mean it will take forever (or never) coming out? it's already been over a month since the initially promised "a few days". people's who postponed adaptation based on this initial acknowledge have been screwed multiple times. all we want at this point is merely a stable bug fix version.

Screwed multiple times??? Are you kidding me?

juanper wrote:You excuse and more excuses, I do not understand what you want obtain, Daniel. This is creating a big distrust over of your project OpenCart.

For more than one month you are announcing a new update. And till now your has not contributed any update. This is not good.

Sincerely, this is not good for a project that only is administered by an alone person. This project can be that it comes some day in which it does not have continuity and does not serve for anything.

You till now have I throw a good project and that many users we are using thanks to you, but the users we cannot depend exclusively on you and do not accept good contributions for OpenCart of other advanced users who want to contribute freely.

Congratulations for your good work, you have demonstrated and have provided a good tool to us, but till now his continuity is insecure.

This is my opinion.

Pepe, Leave your opinion to you, that isn't positive feedback and isn't a problem of your poor english, OC is an Open Source project administrated by one guy and this guy say when, how and where, release the next OC; he works and go out as part of his live, so keep quite and wait, just like everyone here, to the next release.

If you want contribute, feel free to start your own extension or translate the program itself, documentation, wiki, extension, etc to spanish.

You can either leave positive feedback to implement in new release by Daniel.

He DON'T NEED OR WANT other people touching his code, and that is it because administrate a community is not an easy task, is much more easy to him make changes itself.

Artlife wrote: Partly responsible may be your poor English, but I think what you've said is rather rude.
This thread was already locked once because of people whining that this or that wasn't progressing as they'd like. Give the man some breathing room and let him get his work done how he likes with some polite and helpful input.

NO, people are unhappy NOT because it wasn't progressing AS THEY'D LIKE, but because it's not AS ANNOUNCED BY DANIEL HIMSELF. Saying "it will be released by three months" and saying "it will be released this week" 12 times during three months does not lead to the same consequence.

Artlife wrote: Screwed multiple times??? Are you kidding me?

Unlike you, most people have to follow a schedule and have to plan things and make decisions by deadlines.

Arguing about this isn't getting us anywhere. I agree that Daniel has set timeframes that were not met, but I'm sure this has happened to all of us at various times. It can be frustrating, no doubt, but Daniel is doing this alone and not for profit, so we'll just have to be patient.

gsluo wrote: Unlike you, most people have to follow a schedule and have to plan things and make decisions by deadlines.

So is daniel getting a cut from this schedule? If you are promising version numbers, then you are in the wrong business. If you are running a webdevelopment company and are using a version later than 1.3.2, then you are doing it wrong. When you adopt a specific version for client installs, then you need to lock it down until you find that a future version is stable enough. 1.3.2 is the most stable to date. Or, you need to be fluent enough in the system's architecture and php to make all the little bug fixes. But you still need to lock it down. Unless you are paying for a commercial license and there was a release schedule in the agreement, then there is no schedule except Daniels.

He DON'T NEED OR WANT other people touching his code, and that is it because administrate a community is not an easy task, is much more easy to him make changes itself.

If that's the case, perhaps it should be renamed to DanielCart and the community can fork a version with a development and release schedule that is a little more 'Open'.

SuperJuice wrote:

He DON'T NEED OR WANT other people touching his code, and that is it because administrate a community is not an easy task, is much more easy to him make changes itself.

If that's the case, perhaps it should be renamed to DanielCart and the community can fork a version with a development and release schedule that is a little more 'Open'.

I don't know you, i can see the code, that's for me is 'Open' source, i can participate on forum and advice daniel regarding what's i want, i can contribute with extension, translation, etc.

Any project must be conducted by some guy, sometime exists more that one and here is not the case.

Let me show you something, if you want an open source community drive project you can see OSxuantum with "q" instead x,
it's a ecommerce based on kohana, the timeframe for release the first alpha was 01/31/2010 as you can see in the first page, but a month before that they said that can't release in that time and perhaps could take more than a couple of month to finish, but the most important to note in this case is the community, check it to understand how hard is drive a community, the time spend to it and how some people don't add benefic to it (controversial person), all this stuff and headaches, daniel don't have.

Have a good community require time, money and effort as you can see on apache fundation (read about it).

Is a Daniel's decition, if he need someone, i'm pretty sure that he will ask about one.

Qphoria wrote:
So is daniel getting a cut from this schedule? If you are promising version numbers, then you are in the wrong business. If you are running a webdevelopment company and are using a version later than 1.3.2, then you are doing it wrong. When you adopt a specific version for client installs, then you need to lock it down until you find that a future version is stable enough. 1.3.2 is the most stable to date. Or, you need to be fluent enough in the system's architecture and php to make all the little bug fixes. But you still need to lock it down. Unless you are paying for a commercial license and there was a release schedule in the agreement, then there is no schedule except Daniels.

So much of this is right on!

And I think that is what so many are asking for again. 1.4.1 with fixes for 1.4.0 and then maybe a followup with 1.4.2. Without multi-shop and some of the other additional features that have been asked for since the release of 1.4.0. Just FIX 1.4.0 - then add features that can be added without changing the structure of the cart. As it sounds right now, the templates for 1.4.0 will not work with 1.4.1. Or the database will be different.
That's a lot more than just getting it stable.

I don't know Daniel, I'm fairly new to OC. I used to cuss it, but have become impressed with what I see is a great future. But I am disillusioned by how long it is taking to get the bugs out and then through beta, because it is not a basic revision, but there are some major changes.

There are always going to be feature requests. But they do not always have to be incorporated into the next release. There should be a line drawn - this is it for this stage. Then debug and add just those already on the list, not having a never-ending list. I think that is the holdup. He is trying too hard to please too many people with feature requests, when there is an unstable version that should first be made stable.

I am praying for multi-shop. There are other features I'd love to see. But I have clients now who know there is a new version and would like to have it, rather than install an older version and go through an upgrade in 3 days. Three months - yes, say that's what it will be and they'll take 1.3.4 and get selling.

I'm not complaining as someone who develops, or adds value to most carts. Maybe a template, but I do not package sites, I simply sell hosting and have clients who want OC over the other freebies. I would like it for some sites of my own, but that is not the basis for this, it's simply that there are a lot of folks just standing by waiting for the OK to start using 1.4.x and they just keep hearing "tomorrow" or "end of week", etc.

I'm all for it, I want it to work. If I ever get a current working version I'll throw some money in the pot. I don't mind paying, I've pissed away thousands on scripts over the years. I'd just like to be able to tell new clients there is a new working version of OpenCart.

maomaox wrote:does this mean it will take forever (or never) coming out? it's already been over a month since the initially promised "a few days". people's who postponed adaptation based on this initial acknowledge have been screwed multiple times. all we want at this point is merely a stable bug fix version.

This only means that the next version will, before it comes out, tested by a small group.

Any, if any, issues found will be fixt BEFORE a public release just to make sure that you, the public group, get a most stable release possible.

If that means it takes another week, or maybe even 2 weeks, so be it.

Whatever we do, some people will never be satisfied and will always find a way to complain and moan on any decission.

i2Paq wrote: This only means that the next version will, before it comes out, tested by a small group.

Any, if any, issues found will be fixt BEFORE a public release just to make sure that you, the public group, get a most stable release possible.

If that means it takes another week, or maybe even 2 weeks, so be it.

Whatever we do, some people will never be satisfied and will always find a way to complain and moan on any decission.

nonsense, everyone here is more or less in support of OpenCart or they wouldn't even bother spend time install, test and give feedback. not everyone wanting to recommend OpenCart is to make a direct profit from it. you are talking as if ONLY YOU are doing work for this project and others only take your work to make money, which is completely false. in fact I see many non-moderators have made more contributions than you have, thus you are no more qualified to test the codes than they are. so stop moan about others expressing their opinions, such responses of yours are a negative contribution to the atmosphere of this community.

gsluo wrote:

i2Paq wrote: This only means that the next version will, before it comes out, tested by a small group.

Any, if any, issues found will be fixt BEFORE a public release just to make sure that you, the public group, get a most stable release possible.

If that means it takes another week, or maybe even 2 weeks, so be it.

Whatever we do, some people will never be satisfied and will always find a way to complain and moan on any decission.

nonsense, everyone here is more or less in support of OpenCart or they wouldn't even bother spend time install, test and give feedback. not everyone wanting to recommend OpenCart is to make a direct profit from it. you are talking as if ONLY YOU are doing work for this project and others only take your work to make money, which is completely false. in fact I see many non-moderators have made more contributions than you have, thus you are no more qualified to test the codes than they are. so stop moan about others expressing their opinions, such responses of yours are a negative contribution to the atmosphere of this community.

Wauw, so beeing a moderator means that he/she needs to be a code-wizzkid? Never came to think about that....
Maybe you should read before you speak on what a moderator exactly is on Wikipedia.

As more and more people start using OC, we, the Community, need to make sure that every new release has been tested before beeing made public. This is normal procedure on any LARGE open source community.
This because the larger the community gets the more people are affected if a new release has (to) many issues.

As for those who will test any new release, never has been said that this is a moderator only job. If you would have read more closer then you would have known that we are in the process of setting up an beta-test program with those who have the skills needed for the job.
But, in the end, it all depends on Daniel, he only can allow us to set-up this beta-test program.

i2Paq wrote: we are in the process of setting up an beta-test program with those who have the skills needed for the job.

Playing devil's advocate here.........

It seems most of the frustration here is that people are confusing two different types of testing:

• "Functional Testing" where a skilled person in eg,PHP/MySQL/Javascript etc., is/are required to test "functionality".
• "User" testing. NO skillset is required (in fact the greener the user the better); they find the little things that the programmers can and ultimately do overlook!

More recently everyone who has downloaded OC has been part of the "user testing".

My vote is with a previous comment about waiting for a release that is robust; then work on the "pretties" when there is a good base to work from.

"Bugging" (no pun intended) Daniel just causes angst and takes time out from development.

Though I do understand the frustration of those who have already notified their customers of a "new" release. The nature of the beast dictates place no expectations.

My2c worth

But before you publish 1.4.0, you have not tested!
Do not say tomorrow, today, tonight because users OpenCart must respond to their customers!
You can lose customers if you continue to say tomorrow, tomorrow!

Then you can say OpenCart new version in the works.
Do not give any estimate of output, so that users use and offer more stable version 1.3.2