Post by i2Paq » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:15 pm

Well, it is funny that whenever something is free and "professionals" start using it for ther own webshops or to build a site for a client and in both cases they get payd the faster they cry for a new version or a next release date. If I look at the forums of osCommerce, PrestaShop or even the "magic" osQuantum, it is the same everywhere.
But, if I look at forums where people have payd for their software the call out for new releases is much less or even none. They even except bugs!

The main goal we should be having is that the next release is stabel and take it from there. This means that a release is done to a select group who "know" php and OC to stresstest it and when they say Go! it gets released, and not because some John Doe cry's that he whants it now!

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Post by iansane » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:30 pm

Yes

I think there is also a distinction between the community on opensource projects such as this and the users of paid scripts because there is a sense of involvement here.

Microsoft may not tell you when windows 8 will be out, but they will certainly tell you when they expect the next update for 7. I personally prefer the changing deadline and realistic uncertainty of things like opencart to a fixed release date.

I think all people really want is to be kept in the loop and I think Dan has done a decent enough job of that. I would rather him work on polishing up 1.4.1 rather than spending his time on this forum explaining when it will be out.

A common problem for programmers and engineers is dealing with business people and schedules. How long does it take to write 1.4.1? The answer is that it takes however long it takes. A subversion repository with unstable nightly builds would silence many complaints because developers would be able to see exactly whats not working, but also how things are being changed and start planning changes to their mods/modules/templates.

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:06 pm

i2Paq wrote: The main goal we should be having is that the next release is stabel and take it from there.
That is not professional at all! Do you think if Windows 95 was bug free we would have ever bought 98? or Millennium Edition? They tried making it almost bug free with XP and now people won't leave it... so they brought the bugs back in Vista, preemptively for Win 7 sales. That's "professional" development. Intentional bugs so that people will buy the next version that fixes those bugs and adds new ones.

I'd say OpenCart is very "professional" . tehehehehehehe (rib... rib...) ;D :D

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Post by i2Paq » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:10 pm

Qphoria wrote:
i2Paq wrote: The main goal we should be having is that the next release is stabel and take it from there.
That is not professional at all! Do you think if Windows 95 was bug free we would have ever bought 98? or Millennium Edition? They tried making it almost bug free with XP and now people won't leave it... so they brought the bugs back in Vista, preemptively for Win 7 sales. That's "professional" development. Intentional bugs so that people will buy the next version that fixes those bugs and adds new ones.
Ghehehe Image

I suddenly see what Daniel is doing ;D
I'd say OpenCart is very "professional" . tehehehehehehe (rib... rib...) ;D :D
Yep, almost ;)

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Post by iloveopencart » Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:06 am

iloveopencart wrote:While I've been quiet lately, I have been watching this post completely run out its usefulness. I can't speak for Daniel, but I'm sure he appreciates everyone's enthusiasm for the next great release. But how about keeping a few things in mind:

* He's doing this for free (in the hopes for donations). He owes nothing to anyone.
* This is a community, so let's act like a community and show respect to each other. Respect begets respect.
* Instead of wasting everyone's time posting insults and impatience, how about using that time to help develop something that can be contributed to the community, like a module. Don't know PHP? Help with the Wiki? To boring? Try making some templates. Don't know HTML? Then please stop pushing and be patient.

I don't like banning people or blocking posts, because I do believe in freedom of speech. But as a moderator, it is a responsibility to the community as a whole to keep the forum safe and friendly for all. Insults and bad language are not safe or friendly. Don't like it? Then leave. No one is asking you to participate. But if you are going to participate, then you are welcome as long as you be respectful, intelligent and contribute to the overall good of the project. It's as simple as that.

So unless this topic gets back on track (though I don't know if there's really anything more to discuss), I will lock this post. Let's keep OpenCart the best product and community on the web.

Thanks for everyone's cooperation and support. Have a nice day :) .
iloveopencart wrote:I guess I have no choice now but to lock the topic!!! My previous post was a polite plea for everyone to grow up and act like adults. I was hoping it would work... guess I was wrong. As I suspected, there's nothing intelligent left to discuss in this topic. Sorry to all the respectful and courteous members of this community, but I guess the banter just won't stop.
OK, hopefully after a day, things have quieted down ;) . I have cleaned up this topic by removing all the junk so it is still useful for Daniel and the community. I have also reopened it for posting... but ONLY under the condition that it stays on topic and friendly... please. Thanks again for everyone's cooperation.

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Post by peteVA » Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:15 am

Thanks, it looks like 5 pages or so are gone. Good for you!

I have just one thought to pass on and that is for Daniel to draw a line in the sand and say in effect "I don't care what else is suggested, this is all that will be included in v4.1.1. It seems like there is always "just one more thing" and even a non-coder like myself knows that you don't just add one more thing, because there are always related files and issues.

Definitely not my call, but tackle the bugs and let the new functions, wish list wait for the next release. Just get it stable for now.

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Post by Daniel » Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:45 am

Don't worry guys its coming.

the thing that has slowed me down is the multi-shop. I'm going to have to remove the url class. I'm not sure I want to do this because people might complain if there mods don't work. I should never have used a url class in the first place.

pone of the other features is perfect IE6 compatibility. I found out the current version is runnng in qurks mode and was causing loads of problems when trying to match up the look and feel.

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Post by icockrum » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:16 am

Thank you for the update, Daniel.

For what it's worth, Google has announced that Google Docs will be officially dropping support for IE 6 on March 1st - which I see as a major sign that IE6's time is almost past. w3schools reports that IE6 is down to 10.2% of users, which is still a hefty amount, but after Google drops them, I bet we'll see a lot of those users finally upgrade.

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Post by maomaox » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am

Daniel wrote:Don't worry guys its coming.

the thing that has slowed me down is the multi-shop. I'm going to have to remove the url class. I'm not sure I want to do this because people might complain if there mods don't work. I should never have used a url class in the first place.

pone of the other features is perfect IE6 compatibility. I found out the current version is runnng in qurks mode and was causing loads of problems when trying to match up the look and feel.
I personally think it would be better to not include multi-shop in the core version. First because this feature is non-essential and not needed by most people, and second, people's requirements for this feature tend to vary a lot, so it would be very difficult to make this feature useful to everyone who needs it. A better solution would be to make this function as a separate mod and all setting about the additional shops are configured within this add-on mod. This way the core remains clean and concise, which has been the best character of OpenCart.
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Post by Yakiv » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:38 am

You've got to be kidding. Make it an add-on module? There's no true modularity to OpenCart. Get the modularity fixed first, before you ask Daniel to yank anything out and make it an add-on module!

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Post by peteVA » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:51 am

Multi-shop is going to be used by a very small percentage of users, probably less than 5%. And, as mentioned, there are any number of variables any specific user might want. All payments to a single account? Payments to different accounts? Share inventory? Stand alone inventory? Share buyer data, or not? Etc.

Hardly any carts offer it, even for a price. Those that do are $300 or more.

I would not hold up everything else for this, even though I will be the first to admit I want it. I'd rather have the base script relatively bug-free and beyond beta, then wait for multi-shop.

Just my thinking, but I'd say many others would rather have a working cart without multi-shop at this point.

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Post by maomaox » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:39 am

peteVA wrote:Multi-shop is going to be used by a very small percentage of users, probably less than 5%. And, as mentioned, there are any number of variables any specific user might want. All payments to a single account? Payments to different accounts? Share inventory? Stand alone inventory? Share buyer data, or not? Etc.

Hardly any carts offer it, even for a price. Those that do are $300 or more.

I would not hold up everything else for this, even though I will be the first to admit I want it. I'd rather have the base script relatively bug-free and beyond beta, then wait for multi-shop.

Just my thinking, but I'd say many others would rather have a working cart without multi-shop at this point.
exactly, I'm concerned that the multi-shop could introduce many new bugs and make the clean code messy again.

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Post by dannowatts » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:38 am

exactly, I'm concerned that the multi-shop could introduce many new bugs and make the clean code messy again.
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Post by guts_glory » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:14 pm

Daniel wrote:Don't worry guys its coming.

the thing that has slowed me down is the multi-shop. I'm going to have to remove the url class. I'm not sure I want to do this because people might complain if there mods don't work. I should never have used a url class in the first place.

pone of the other features is perfect IE6 compatibility. I found out the current version is runnng in qurks mode and was causing loads of problems when trying to match up the look and feel.
Multi-shop idea is great! In today's market there are only 2 or 3 solutions out there that are decent. If OpenCart is with this new feature, it will further take up the market share.

I am actually in need of such a multi-shop or multi-vendor shopping cart.

Well done, Dan!

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Post by Xsecrets » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:53 pm

I have to say if you are doing something as major as a multi-shop I propose that it's clearly labeled beta and released on the forum only to give people time to test and debug it. I can't imagine multi-shop will come without any bugs.

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Post by guts_glory » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:41 pm

Xsecrets wrote:I have to say if you are doing something as major as a multi-shop I propose that it's clearly labeled beta and released on the forum only to give people time to test and debug it. I can't imagine multi-shop will come without any bugs.
You are absolutely right. I can't imagine that it could be used in a production environment with the first release.

One of the other products that Daniel can take a look for reference is Interspire. Their multi-vendor solution is one of the best in the market, in my opinion.

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Post by gsluo » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:02 pm

I just installed 1.4.0 for a test drive and read through this thread. Overall a great system except for the bugs reported in this thread.

I think now it's best to make a bugfix version without multishop, then put multishop in another version later. this way at least we'll have a stable version in the meantime and avoid unnecessary delay for something that is not useful most of the time yet potentially a trouble maker.

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Post by Daniel » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:06 pm

the multishop mod is not that bigger change. its just new setting page and checbox in the product, category page to select which stuff goes on which site. it is not a multi vendor mod.

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Post by Gerrit » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:28 pm

I'm Really looking forward for this.

Thanks.

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