Post by Xsecrets » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:11 pm

davykeenan wrote:Hi Bader, with all due respect to Xsecrets this is not exactly correct, just make sure your payment module does not rely on any specific features in Opencart as per the example above posed by myself.

I would check this over and if your module relies on functions of the main system, I would check the roadmap to make sure there are no changes in the specific functions your module relies on.

As your module will be dealing with payment locally and if you need to edit payment info in the admin section you may need to modify the admin order files as the admin edit order feature seems to have been changed in 1.4.9 and advanced features rescheduled for a later release. (see picture above)

Can I ask out of curiosity if by local payment system you mean a point of sale system? Where the shop owner would actually take payment at point of purchase and enters the details into the site there and then?
well that's why I put in my comment that it shouldn't be affected. Because a payment module really shouldn't be screwing with the order edit stuff. It should do only what it's designed to do. Yes it's possible if you go working with functions from incomplete features that it will get broken, but most people won't do this as there is absolutely no need in a payment module.

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Post by davykeenan » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:22 pm

well that's why I put in my comment that it shouldn't be affected. Because a payment module really shouldn't be screwing with the order edit stuff. It should do only what it's designed to do. Yes it's possible if you go working with functions from incomplete features that it will get broken, but most people won't do this as there is absolutely no need in a payment module.
Hi Xsecrets, you are totally correct, when building modules and extensions they should be confined to their own place in the system, point taken, but, you knew there was going to be a but, but in my case i was working on a stable release 1.4.8, and you just don't expect features to be removed.

Im not convinced this was a good move, don't you think the 'incomplete features' i.e. the admin order edit function should not have been included in 1.4.8b if it was just going to be taken out in 1.4.9?? or do you think it should have been left in???

I would love this to go back in as it allows the admin a chance to correct misstakes or update cost depanding on criteria that has at least been processed by a payments module, it just seems like a waste of that function to keep it out, I have still to hear a reason why it was removed??

As i said before, backward steps although sometime inevitable are usually a step in the wrong direction??

Would love to hear your views, and that or the rest of the moderators??

Thanks Again,

Davy K

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Post by Qphoria » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:38 pm

You seem to be talking about 2 different things. Xsecrets says that payment modules won't be affected if coded correctly and the api doesn't change. You are back on the admin order edit. So I fixed 2 issues and removed another. Things happen. Up till the past version you had no edit options and the world kept turning. In 6 years of ecommerce business and thousands of customers, I've had only 2 customers ask me to change their order. Not something I'm losing sleep over because it happens so rarely to even really need it

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Post by Xsecrets » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:25 pm

davykeenan wrote: I would love this to go back in as it allows the admin a chance to correct misstakes or update cost depanding on criteria that has at least been processed by a payments module, it just seems like a waste of that function to keep it out, I have still to hear a reason why it was removed??
It was changed because it was incomplete and didn't work correctly and we had customer complaints about it constantly, so it was changed to work more completely. I don't see this as a bad thing. It's not like it was a framework level class that got removed. Generally people don't count on functions from other controllers when they are writing mods. If you look at the functionality from 99% of the users perspective it is most definitely not a step backwards. It no longer removes all the options from an order when you edit. It now prepopulates most of the price fields these are steps forward for pretty much everyone but you.

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Post by davykeenan » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:20 am

- The Admin Order Edit has been completely redone. Admin Order Insert is delayed until future versions
I totally get what your saying and agree about the population of the price fields and can understand where the errors would occur as the calculations in order totals and what not would have went a little ka-ka (to quote a sci-fi legend), a bit more thinking than its worth probably..

I just have 2 questions to add?

In the notes it states about the admin order insert to be included in future versions, can I ask your thinking on this then against your previous statement?? Whats going to be included then??

and second,

maybe I have been going about this all wrong, its really just the shipping I would like to edit not really the order, as I have clients that take quite a few payments from far away countires and require custom shipping rates (which sometimes means taking payment manually outside the online store system, not great) and instead of sometimes re-ordering and sending the customer another set of emails they really need to just edit the original order and update history.

What about this??

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Post by davykeenan » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:25 am

Qphoria wrote:You seem to be talking about 2 different things. Xsecrets says that payment modules won't be affected if coded correctly and the api doesn't change. You are back on the admin order edit. So I fixed 2 issues and removed another. Things happen. Up till the past version you had no edit options and the world kept turning. In 6 years of ecommerce business and thousands of customers, I've had only 2 customers ask me to change their order. Not something I'm losing sleep over because it happens so rarely to even really need it
Totally agree with you they are 2 separate issues as i thought i stated in the last post to Xsecrets but if i wasn't that clear, i apologise :), and you are totally correct about the payment modules, as long as the api doesn't change everything should be rosy.

As stated the issue is getting a bit out of hand and its not really all the admin edit i need its only the shipping as stated in my last post.

As a round about fix I could add a shipping product, a bit messy but acceptable for now.

I don't want to harp on about this, its not going to stop me using OpenCart as it is amazing I really do need to applaud you guys as this is the best system I have used even if there are a few features missing I would like to see.

As they say, you can't please all of the people all of the time...

Again cheers for the talk, i love talking about OpenCart and will continue to be a pest ;) when I’ve got something I feel strongly about.

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Post by davykeenan » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:35 am

Ok, this looks like a dead end here, going to have to create this an extension/module with custom edit in the admin?

There are definetly OpenCart users out there that would benifit from being able to edit the shipping price after the order has been recieved and then be able to ask the buyer to then log-in and pay.

I really don't want to take up to much space on this topic as it should be about 1.4.9 in general and we are getting specific about a subject so I am moving this discussion to another topic, link below.

If there are Opencart users who would like to see this in the main release, or even what to use this extension please visit the new topic and post your support.

I have the first confirmed buyer of this edit, you can see more info at the topic below.

http://forum.opencart.com/viewtopic.php ... 64&start=0

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Post by mystifier » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:26 pm

davykeenan wrote:There are definetly OpenCart users out there that would benifit from being able to edit the shipping price after the order has been recieved and then be able to ask the buyer to then log-in and pay.
Being able to post-edit any details of an Order and requiring a customer to then log back in and pay more sounds like very bad business practice. The shipping needs to be properly accommodated for in the first place with a custom shipping module if necessary.

Certainly, there is no way it should be considered for the core in my opinion.

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Post by davykeenan » Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:19 pm

I totally agree that everything should be done to get the shipping right in the first place, but we live in the real world and thats just not always possible for all shipping options.

So if you are saying this is bad practise then you are really saying that there are some countries that core opencart users should not ship to or either over/under charge for shipping, well am sorry I think that is even worse practice to exclude customers from these areas or charge unrealistic prices.

It still doesn't change the fact that a lot of people use their systems in this way and because it's not core they rely on extensions.

Saying that I am very open minded and will see if anyone posts to the new topic, if this is a overwhelming minority then I will accept defeat gracefully.

Still have to write this for my clients anyway...

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Post by Ianf » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:12 pm

Qphoria wrote:Im pretty sure 5.3 has been supported in OpenCart for the past few versions. What does "the site went off" mean?
Qphoria when we tried to navigate to the site we got an cpanel page and not the site, but we could login to cpanel. So we coouldn't see the page or add products. Also the blog was down. The address of the site is http://www.paperkutz.co.za the blog which is on sub domain was also down.

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Post by rja57 » Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:08 am

Good work Q. All the hard work is greatly appreciated.

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Post by bader » Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:24 am

davykeenan wrote:Hi Bader, with all due respect to Xsecrets this is not exactly correct, just make sure your payment module does not rely on any specific features in Opencart as per the example above posed by myself.

I would check this over and if your module relies on functions of the main system, I would check the roadmap to make sure there are no changes in the specific functions your module relies on.

As your module will be dealing with payment locally and if you need to edit payment info in the admin section you may need to modify the admin order files as the admin edit order feature seems to have been changed in 1.4.9 and advanced features rescheduled for a later release. (see picture above)

Can I ask out of curiosity if by local payment system you mean a point of sale system? Where the shop owner would actually take payment at point of purchase and enters the details into the site there and then?
It is a payment gateway on the internet for local debit cards here in Kuwait. I will check and update you if it will work with 1.4.9 .. it is like sending the total from OpenCart to the payment gateway, then the payment gateway send the results on separated webpage.

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Post by bader » Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:33 am

Just tested my payment gateway, it works perfectly.

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Post by davykeenan » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:50 am

Great news, glad everything worked out for you

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Post by laerte » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:36 am

Qphoria wrote:
You seem to be talking about 2 different things. Xsecrets says that payment modules won't be affected if coded correctly and the api doesn't change. You are back on the admin order edit. So I fixed 2 issues and removed another. Things happen. Up till the past version you had no edit options and the world kept turning. In 6 years of ecommerce business and thousands of customers, I've had only 2 customers ask me to change their order. Not something I'm losing sleep over because it happens so rarely to even really need it
Keep up the great work guys, the goal of community I think this forum is to discuss with the discussion and find solutions and improvements to the better tool that was created.

I using Opencart since 2009, and I'm really loving this tool, but I can't read this kind of comment and keep quiet.

I dont agree w/ this comment, I'm not criticizing the comment itself by the most active user from this community, but how rude and authoritarian who was treated this issue: even with two, three, ten, thousands .. no matter! who uses opencart, which already had this function, will certainly feel harmed, and worst of all, no prediction of correction, nor whether it will work.

I had this problem too.

I'm keep trying (every day) to study, analysis and compared the open source ecommerce systems: magento, prestashop, and quickcart opencart. The first three systems have support for editing values for the admin order, w/ minor corrections or to add or decrease a value (in magento is possible to create a complete order @ the system of administration.. amazing!).

If this is already available on Magento is because it caters to any type of situation. But apparently the opencart not have this kind of priority: to follow paths that any business can be/have, without the possibility of having a tool and use it as I want.

This is one of the reasons I like of wordpress (such as open tool and community), besides having a large and extensive documentation, and discuss about how to create a great system, not only has small groups who suggest and decide what is important or not).

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Post by Xsecrets » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:24 pm

laerte wrote:
Qphoria wrote:
You seem to be talking about 2 different things. Xsecrets says that payment modules won't be affected if coded correctly and the api doesn't change. You are back on the admin order edit. So I fixed 2 issues and removed another. Things happen. Up till the past version you had no edit options and the world kept turning. In 6 years of ecommerce business and thousands of customers, I've had only 2 customers ask me to change their order. Not something I'm losing sleep over because it happens so rarely to even really need it
Keep up the great work guys, the goal of community I think this forum is to discuss with the discussion and find solutions and improvements to the better tool that was created.

I using Opencart since 2009, and I'm really loving this tool, but I can't read this kind of comment and keep quiet.

I dont agree w/ this comment, I'm not criticizing the comment itself by the most active user from this community, but how rude and authoritarian who was treated this issue: even with two, three, ten, thousands .. no matter! who uses opencart, which already had this function, will certainly feel harmed, and worst of all, no prediction of correction, nor whether it will work.
what are you talking about Just about no one could use the old order edit because it was feature lacking and in the case of options quite broken. I would say that the new implementation in balance is a great improvement. Not to mention that it has already been stated that it will be rewritten and improved again in 1.5.
I had this problem too.

I'm keep trying (every day) to study, analysis and compared the open source ecommerce systems: magento, prestashop, and quickcart opencart. The first three systems have support for editing values for the admin order, w/ minor corrections or to add or decrease a value (in magento is possible to create a complete order @ the system of administration.. amazing!).
It has been stated that this will be available in 1.5 this is a much more complex feature than you may think and it will take time to get right.
If this is already available on Magento is because it caters to any type of situation. But apparently the opencart not have this kind of priority: to follow paths that any business can be/have, without the possibility of having a tool and use it as I want.
well that mentality is also what made magento the giant resource hog that it is. If you want an overly complex system that eats system resources for breakfast please go use magento, but for this project we will try to determine what will serve the most people and try to make it easy enough for developers to create additions to cover the rest so that it doesn't get huge and bloated and need a quad core xeon to get sub 5 second page loads like magento does.
This is one of the reasons I like of wordpress (such as open tool and community), besides having a large and extensive documentation, and discuss about how to create a great system, not only has small groups who suggest and decide what is important or not).
Funny you sould mention wordpress as it really doesn't do all that much when you talk about a default install of wordpress. Pretty much all the extended functionality comes via plugins, and that is much more the route that opencart is looking at than a behemoth like magento where they tried to cram every possible function into the core.

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Post by laerte » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:44 pm

Okay, let me know.. if I do not understand anything, then you should understand that this telling me that magento is slow because of that? specifically because of this feature, where you can have all control of your store as manager, in that you can not make any correction.. like a price or qty or taxes?

Development of the tool for opencart, means improvements for both: performance as well as for end user. Yeah, I want to keep using the opencart with all the resources available at the moment and in the near future, like wishlist, thats will enrich the tool .. and not "giant resource hog", like u said. :)

I hope you understood my point of view.
There are some many ways to be done.
Hopeful these fixes will be shortly on this v1.5

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Post by davykeenan » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:55 pm

Glad there are at least a few people that requires this feature, thought I was going to be the only developer using opencart that actually needs this, has anyone got any idea when 1.5 will be out as I don't want to spend loads of time on this issue just for it to be fixed in the next month or two?

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Post by ncc50446@hotmail.com » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:19 am

They said it could be sometime before it gets added, as there are more important things they needed to get done...Maybe with all the people complaining it will get booted up the list of features to be added soon lol I know I need it too...Been looking into maybe creating it myself if it's too far off...It's kinda important for me.
But, still keep up the good work team :) Don't worry...You will never be able to make everyone happy lol You guys have done a great job :) We complain, but only because we love oc lol


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Post by jty » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:15 am

ncc50446@hotmail.com wrote:Don't worry...You will never be able to make everyone happy
Yer and when they give us every feature under the sun, we will complain about performance ::)
ncc50446@hotmail.com wrote:We complain, but only because we love oc lol
I like your attitude. LOL.

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