Post by alex1 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:57 am

Tom52 wrote:Sorry, but when is the 1.5 is coming out?

Tom
Daniel wrote:i'm pretty surte it will be this month.

i'm finishing the features off one-by-one.

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Post by HTMLCSSNoob » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:34 am

alex1 wrote:
Tom52 wrote:Sorry, but when is the 1.5 is coming out?

Tom
Daniel wrote:i'm pretty surte it will be this month.

i'm finishing the features off one-by-one.
Well, considering there is only a day and a half left in December and there have already been 3 times Daniel has said the cart would be out on such and such date without it actually ever showing up..... Let's see if some magic happens. I could totally see a big banner on the OpenCart site that says "START THE NEW YEAR OFF WITH A REVOLUTIONARY NEW CART!" Hmm, one can hope anyway.
CUSTOM_UK wrote:That means the final program needs to be reliable, but above all, very user friendly for the person sitting at the very end of the line; the web shop customer wanting to make a purchase. That is the ONLY person any shopping cart software should truly focus on...For OpenCart to become one of the dominant species, it must always focus on making things easy for the shop owner and the shop customer. Lose that basic concept and you rapidly lose the plot of what ecommerce SHOULD be about. 8)
Amen brother (or sister). Everything about the shopping cart should be about the customer. They are the only reason shopping carts even exist. I hope that in 2011 the developers can strike a balance between making it a kick ass cart in terms of how great, easy, and intuitive it is in the eyes of a customer and how great, easy, and intuitive it is in the eyes of a developer.

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Post by SapporoGuy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:33 am

Sorry about 17 hours from where I'm sitting :laugh:

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:04 am

HTMLCSSNoob wrote: Well, considering there is only a day and a half left in December and there have already been 3 times Daniel has said the cart would be out on such and such date without it actually ever showing up..... Let's see if some magic happens. I could totally see a big banner on the OpenCart site that says "START THE NEW YEAR OFF WITH A REVOLUTIONARY NEW CART!" Hmm, one can hope anyway.
Well if it comes out a month late.. don't use it! That'll stick it to him good!

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Post by cevarief » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:02 am

I just read the opencart roadmap http://www.opencart.com/index.php?route ... map&page=1 and still lot of pending status. There are only 2 oc developers there? I'm wondering if this is Daniel's decision to restrict only 2? I guess if there are 2 or 3 more developers involved (since it's opensource app), it can get rid a lot pending status.

Please note, i'm not currently complaining why 1.5 does not come out yet ;)

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Post by Xsecrets » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:28 am

cevarief wrote:I just read the opencart roadmap http://www.opencart.com/index.php?route ... map&page=1 and still lot of pending status. There are only 2 oc developers there? I'm wondering if this is Daniel's decision to restrict only 2? I guess if there are 2 or 3 more developers involved (since it's opensource app), it can get rid a lot pending status.

Please note, i'm not currently complaining why 1.5 does not come out yet ;)
be glad there are two Q was only added recently. hopefully there will be some more team members after 1.5 is released. Also I wouldn't put too much stock in the roadmap. If I remember correctly the ones that made it into older versions never got marked completed till after release.

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:55 am

I've not once looked at the roadmap more than once tbh. I look at the feature request list and choose which are easiest and most useful to add.

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Post by gocreative » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:01 pm

Then you should either start using it or get rid of it. It's obviously just confusing everyone.

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Post by i2Paq » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:37 pm

oneilldesign wrote:Then you should either start using it or get rid of it. It's obviously just confusing everyone.
I agree, it is confusing, outdated and as a road-map un-useful as it is not followed.

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Post by HTMLCSSNoob » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:52 pm

Qphoria wrote:
HTMLCSSNoob wrote: Well, considering there is only a day and a half left in December and there have already been 3 times Daniel has said the cart would be out on such and such date without it actually ever showing up..... Let's see if some magic happens. I could totally see a big banner on the OpenCart site that says "START THE NEW YEAR OFF WITH A REVOLUTIONARY NEW CART!" Hmm, one can hope anyway.
Well if it comes out a month late.. don't use it! That'll stick it to him good!
Imagine if everyone took that philosophy to heart. Then were would OpenCart be...

Besides, a month late? The first time Daniel said it would be out was sometime back in August. Going by the first time this was said and not the fourth time (as we are on now), then the cart is already 4 months late.

Anyway you took my post the wrong way, I'm not complaining that 1.5 isn't out yet...i'm simply stating the fact that unless 1.5 comes out at the stroke of midnight, then this will be the 4th time Daniel has said the cart will come out on such and such date without it actually showing up. One can cry wolf as many times as they want, but sooner or later people will lose confidence in what is being said.

Yet another example of how a PR/Marketing person needs to join the team to handle all communications regarding the cart.

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Post by SapporoGuy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:05 pm

This whole page is full of complaints!
Be a man and just be straight and say it straight.

How about a New Year's Resolution?

complaints/comments::: So far I've seen --
1.) road map is nice, but useless ... at least it is not as bad as want M$ stated for LongHorn!
2.) dates ... hmmm, I do remember a story about a boy who cried wolf. Sweet, it's gonna be late, but just say it at least. Most of us have dealt with women who have said, sorry I have a headache -- tomorrow should be ok ;)
3.) coders ... 2 is ok ... however, I have seen patches here on the forum that havenever gotten submitted to the main trunk. Maybe not the direction of the cart but a shame to loose people willing to help. Internal code team ...
4.) Site looks good, pulls you in, get's you pumped !!! Great job on that! However, it is a lot for the main coder to do every thing, split the responsibilities. People are dying to help!


Oh, I'm not complaining by the way, I'm just summarizing! ;)

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Post by HTMLCSSNoob » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:27 pm

SapporoGuy wrote:This whole page is full of complaints!
Be a man and just be straight and say it straight.

Oh, I'm not complaining by the way, I'm just summarizing! ;)
Read my friend, read... ;)
HTMLCSSNoob wrote:Anyway you took my post the wrong way, I'm not complaining that 1.5 isn't out yet...
I honestly don't care when 1.5 comes out as I am happy with 1.4.9.3. I doubt I will upgrade to 1.5 anyway until at least 1.5.2 or 1.5.3. What I am complaining about is how the cart is managed in the eyes of a PR or Marketing Rep. Three times release dates have come and gone with nothing (and getting very close to possibly a 4th time). In the eyes of PR/Marketing that is a disaster.
SapporoGuy wrote:Most of us have dealt with women who have said, sorry I have a headache -- tomorrow should be ok ;)
:laugh: if that's happening a lot then perhaps I'm not the one who needs advice on how to "be a man" ;)

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Post by cevarief » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:45 pm

i2Paq wrote:
oneilldesign wrote:Then you should either start using it or get rid of it. It's obviously just confusing everyone.
I agree, it is confusing, outdated and as a road-map un-useful as it is not followed.
It's better if the roadmap or its breakdown (the tasks) could be reorganized and updated with the latest development so at least people won't keep asking when and when 1.5 will be out. They can refer to the roadmap and see what's left unfinsihed or in progress there. Self estimate.

I understand when cssnoob say it is the 4th time Daniel has said the cart will come out on such and such date since there's no guide nor preview we can see. It's blank and just wait for the 5th time.

Based on this experience, i guess 2 Developers are not enough. The more features to add, the more reasonable developers should get involved, or it will be compromized with the finishing time.

I hope Daniel can still handle this and we can see opencart really shining next year.

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Post by SapporoGuy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:19 pm

Dealt with dude!
Didn't say how ;)
Q will pitch in if I go into that again! :laugh:

The summarizing part was being sarcastic, hence the ;)

Read up on some my first post here.
I've been saying everything on this page for the last 2 months. I just shut up for a while since Daniel chirped in.
However, Q's estimation was at the time roughly around Valentine's. So, I could care less when 1.5 comes out.
Actually the later is better for me.

@ man

What I'm trying to say, is that lots of people are being all nice about these issues. Nobody wants to rock the boat it.

Ban me, and see if I care.
I post because I know that I want to help on the forums and to make things better for opencart in general.
Don't like my way of doing things... see if I care. I have other things to do and other ways to get along.

More people have to step up, voice their opinions.
If Daniel doesn't like it, he has lots of options and probably lots of them that people won't like.

@ curiosity
I wonder how many people walked away because of these issues?

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Post by cevarief » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:49 pm

SapporoGuy wrote: I wonder how many people walked away because of these issues?
Do you know how many? I'm one of them to be honest. The buzz of new oc with a lot of features hold me to start creating a new template and module. I'm afraid there would be a big change in both default layout and oc core. So i'd better wait for it rather than creating for 1.4 and updating to a newer version :). Indonesia forum is bit quiet now. Since we don't see anything new in OC. A revolution step might need to take to make the forum more hot and passionated again.

1.5 would be my oc development pole ;)

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Post by Qphoria » Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:47 am

So the answer is clear again.. don't advertise any new features and create a buzz, or that will just anger people... in other words.. don't tease the dogs...

Real life has a tendency of taking priority. Daniel has kids... and its christmas break for at least 2 weeks in most countries. You are elbow deep in an RMA system and your 5 yr old daughter says "daddy, can we go see santa at the mall"... what do you say? I too am off work for this week with my wife and we've done a lot of family time, making it hard to get stuff done until the normal work week starts again. We can only estimate so much.

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Post by Chones » Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:06 am

There is a problem with people finding out a new feature is coming and then wanting it instantly. You'd think v.1.4.9.3 was a completely useless shop that was good for nothing. Yet thousands of people are using OpenCart successfully all over the world, without the latest features. Some are quite happy with v1.2 or v1.3. My shop, built on v.1.4.8b, had conversion rates of over 25% on some days in the run up to Christmas, which is amazing for any ecommerce application, nevermind a free one. I'm not considering updating because I've modified it too much, and it works fine.

A new feature is not going to make your shop successful, marketing yourself and your products is, as well as good search engine optimisation.

That said, I think the updates on v1.5 have been handled pretty poorly, although it is understandable considering Daniel has been doing it all by himself up until recently, and I know all his announcements have been made in good faith.

Anyway, I have a background in PR if you guys want to run anything by me. Just saying... ;)

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Post by CUSTOM_UK » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:10 am

Qphoria wrote: Daniel has kids...
I hope that statement from Q dispels all those'doubting Thomases' that said Daniel couldn't be civil for ten minutes. ;D

You'll be getting the new version in 2011 folks, and more importantly you'll be getting it for FREE. Just be grateful it on the way and stop trying to tie those unpaid developers to a specific date.

Happy New Year to everyone. :crazy:

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Post by Moggin » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:16 am

Qphoria wrote:I've not once looked at the roadmap more than once tbh. I look at the feature request list and choose which are easiest and most useful to add.
That's something I noticed very quickly at OC - there is a genuine responsiveness, and can-do attitude, with this cart.

So let me say
Thank you, I really appreciate this
and
Please continue to put family first, that's what matters.

-- Unless you're on here to take a breather from them! :laugh: Just kidding!

Hear hear custom_uk, happy new year to you too, and to everyone.

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Post by Qphoria » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:52 am

I think this thread is nearing its end...

The simple facts are:
Will 1.5.0 have more changes than originally mentioneda few months ago: YES
Will 1.5.0 take longer than originally thought: YES
Can we predict the future: NO
Should we update the roadmap more often: YES
Should we manage the features between versions better: YES
Should we update the community more info: Well...
- When we give a release date we are applauded...
- When we say we are going to add even cooler features than originally planned we are applauded...
- When we say the release date is going to be delayed because of the new features.. we are bitched at
- When we realize that additional bits and pieces must be added NOW rather than LATER, to avoid upgrade issues... we are applauded
- When we say those changes will also delay the release... we are bitched at.
- When Daniel gives a release date 2 months ago... he is applauded.
- When I give an update to the community about a new date based on changes... people say "well daniel said blah blah..." and bitch about the contradiction, when really I'm just trying to give updates that people claim to want.

It's like people want to be updated but then don't want to hear the reality of the situation.

Not to say that we shouldn't handle feature control better. minor releases (1.4.1, 1.4.2, 1.4.3, etc) are easier to control because it is typically just new features without any major layout or design changes. 1.5.0 is a lot newer than originally planned. The layout design has returned, modules are more configurable and instance based, the theme itself has changed, the checkout has changed, and product options system is completely revamped. On top of that are simpler user features that should have waited for 1.5.1 or later (RMA, attributes, rewards points, admin order edit, etc.) So we bit off a bit more than we could chew and we are trying to get it all in there for 1.5.0. After that we can go back to more manageable roadmappable releases. As it is now, I've broken down all the big changes in 1.5.0 so the existing roadmap is on pause until 1.5.0 is released.

At this point it just comes down to Daniel having time to get to it all, even with 2 developers available, he is changing so much of the core that that needs to be done first before other parts can be done so he has the ball and I can't really help to adjust other things until that is done, and that wouldn't matter if we had 10 developers.

When 1.5.0 comes out we will be looking for at least one more developer for a specific targeted area:
- a Reports Developer. This person will work only on new official reports. This is pulled directly from the existing data in the database so no changes in the rest of the cart should affect this much and it should be very easily manageable on its own. We technically need to make reports work like extensions first, so they are standalone like the existing extensions and dynamically read into the system on a reports page. Perhaps reports should just be considered "extensions" and we can just add it as a new extension type.

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