Post by JAY6390 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:11 am

Guys guys, cool it eh? Does it really matter? Let's not have an argument on the forums, they never lead anywhere productive 8)

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Post by Qphoria » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:31 am

JAY6390 wrote:Guys guys, cool it eh? Does it really matter? Let's not have an argument on the forums, they never lead anywhere productive 8)
YO MOMMA!

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Post by Johnathan » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:35 am

JAY6390 wrote:Guys guys, cool it eh? Does it really matter? Let's not have an argument on the forums, they never lead anywhere productive 8)
Or at least start a different thread. I keep thinking there's been progress posted on 1.5.0. :)

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Post by alex1 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:39 am

d7a7z7e7d wrote:SapporoGuy is right though, this is really a waste of time. I'm done here.
This is why I stopped posting too.

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Post by op_user » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:04 am

Qphoria wrote:YO MOMMA!
Forum Etiquette and Common Sense. You have been reported to the moderators. Qphoria will now ban you!

I am waiting for Open Cart 3.0


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Post by Qphoria » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:32 am

op_user wrote:
Qphoria wrote:YO MOMMA!
Forum Etiquette and Common Sense. You have been reported to the moderators. Qphoria will now ban you!
BANNED!

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Post by OC2PS » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:41 am

JAY6390 wrote:Let's not have an argument on the forums, they never lead anywhere productive 8)
Sorry! Was just demonstrating how SEO discussions usually go ;) :laugh:

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Post by xds » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:25 am

Shame the topic is shifting, I was really looking forward to learning more about the magical unicorns.

Thanks for 1.5!


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Post by CUSTOM_UK » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:01 pm

I think I preferred the original concept of OpenCart. A simpler to use alternative to the likes of the bloated Zen Cart. Only practical thing that was missing from the core program was the shipping estimator and PayPal Express to bypass the form filling. Looking at it now, it appears to want to become Zen mark two, minus the comprehensive documentation and plethora of free add on modules. Quite how that will benefit anyone is totally beyond me??

SEO is just one small part of an internet business. If somone is relying purely on Google to get their business established, then the venture is already doomed. One of my sites IS on the front page of Google, but that wasn't by planning, as I even forgot to put any meta tags in there. It is on page one, because it is a niche market and the site is product led rather than being marketing led. For the web developers out there, that means selling a product that someone actually wants to buy, not having a 'gimmicky' site.

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Post by scanreg » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:44 pm

I look forward to the beta, thanks :)

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Post by Daniel » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:35 am

CUSTOM_UK wrote:I think I preferred the original concept of OpenCart. A simpler to use alternative to the likes of the bloated Zen Cart. Only practical thing that was missing from the core program was the shipping estimator and PayPal Express to bypass the form filling. Looking at it now, it appears to want to become Zen mark two, minus the comprehensive documentation and plethora of free add on modules. Quite how that will benefit anyone is totally beyond me??

SEO is just one small part of an internet business. If somone is relying purely on Google to get their business established, then the venture is already doomed. One of my sites IS on the front page of Google, but that wasn't by planning, as I even forgot to put any meta tags in there. It is on page one, because it is a niche market and the site is product led rather than being marketing led. For the web developers out there, that means selling a product that someone actually wants to buy, not having a 'gimmicky' site.
OpenCart is not becoming zen-cart mark 2.

I have spent a lot of time to make sure all the coding is simple to understand. all the feratures I have added so far are more extra pages with very little interferring with other parts.

I have actually used more ajax stuff to keep things spearate. such as add to cart, add to wish list, add to product compare as being ajaxc reqests with resonses like to redirect for produict with options so there is no need to check if products require options on every page twhere you can add products to cart.

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:45 am

yea i really don't understand the zencart comparison... zencart is so different from opencart it may as well be another language.

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Post by spaceman » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:48 pm

I know it's the cardinal sin to ask, but I'm sure there's many thousands of avid followers like myself wondering the same - Daniel - are you aiming to have an alpha or beta version of 1.5.0, available this year? I'm sure like most I am not looking for full documentation or demo site to be available but would just like to see how things are standing. Thanks

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Post by SapporoGuy » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:12 am

This year :-X :-X :-X
I'm hoping for Valentines! :clown:

@ zen
Now here's a little story I've got to tell
About three bad brothers you know so well
It started way back in history
With Adrock, M.C.A., and me - Mike D.
Ben had a little horsy named Paul Revere
Just me and my horsy and a quart of beer
Riding across the land, kicking up sand
Sheriff's posse on my tail cause I'm in demand
One lonely Beastie I be
All by myself without no-bo-dy
The sun is beating down on my baseball hat
The air is gettin' hot the beer is getting flat
Lookin' for a girl I ran into a guy
His name is M.C.A., I said, "Howdy" he said, "Hi"
Wilt grabbed the code, Kim pulled out her shotgun and Linda hit the floor with her 4! (errr, 4 rhymes better, she actually brought on ALL her mods.) The remaining of us that came between 1.)Wilt. 2.)Kim and 7.)Linda (I forgot but Linda was around 7th or so).

A few of us just could not stand the idea of adding more crap on to the code and wanted a "bluesky" base. High performance, clean code which was to be ground breaking compared to oscommerce, design base which industry CSS heads would say wow to and such. However, Kim decided (she didn't code much back then, I don't know about today) that Linda and her mods were more important and blocked our efforts to move zen to being ZEN!

So, some of us left. Instead, we have Modx and cakephp (errr, I do believe that the main leader of cakephp was not part of zen but came about along just after when we thought of double forking oscommerce). I well, I decided to terrorize you all :laugh: (actually, personal life crashed in on me, I had my hands full just trying to keep my day job in order :-\ )

So, now you know most of the origins of zen. The reasons for zen are well known and anybody familiar with non-code complaints regarding oscommerce will understand almost immediately. Wilt had more knowledge of the inner workings of oscommerce (he and Linda were on the team I believe ... ugh, I'm getting old) and the rest of us were just active in the community.

--- opencart
When I opened up the directory to opencart it was like a breath of fresh air. The files were even more exciting. Here, this, this is it! I thought. The bluesky project -- why we dumped oscommerce knowing that we'd be outcasts, planning zen to be. Before joining the forums -- I did a fair amount of research on opencart and what I read was not that good and the comments from both sides didn't impress me much either ... :-\

However, because of the code, I decided to overlook all the reports and reviews I had read. I thought that because of what didn't go down well would have been a learning chance which should make the team even stronger and more preemptive to further problems.

---- zen mark 2
Somewhere in the above you might find the nuggets to your answer Q.

My understanding of zen mark 2 would be: code bloat, the oscommerce undeniable green mile wait and blogging about whoop'in it up over beer and the amazing craziness of trying to figure out WTF postnuke is really trying to do by being so fragmented it could drive you insane. People have been burned by past projects and for those of us who actually have looked at the code and understand it's virtues, worry about the zen mark 2 becoming reality no matter the promises of it not becoming so.

---- me and you :D
I am a NOBODY on the net. Yet, I have always had a knack being in or watching the fall and rise of empires starting with phpnuke (talk about hostility and revenge!) and phpBB2 (was actually a friendly take over -- fork).

I am very vocal here, because I have seen and experienced a lot on the web and really want to see opencart grow and prosper. lolo, pipe dreams of VC and such but still, there is so much talent here that it really could easily out shine Magneto if it could be harnessed properly.

Let the old geezers lead you young'ins a bit, thank em and then blow 'm off!
There are quite a few people here who could mentor the progression, by the time their skills have reached their limits a new set will have grown keen of the code and will help with the next stage.

Opensource is a very strange mix of developer(s) and community ... without a true bond between the 2 a project is doomed.

--- sorry for the long post :P

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Post by CUSTOM_UK » Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:49 pm

Qphoria wrote:yea i really don't understand the zencart comparison... zencart is so different from opencart it may as well be another language.
I am thinking that somewhere in the distant past, programs like Zen and Magento never set out to be the complex, difficult to use, bloated offerings that they are today.

Web site developers on ALL the cart forums out there keep pestering for more and more feature sets, the vast majority of which will not benefit most shop owners, or site builders. Some of the requests are so obscure sometimes, I think they are just to appease one difficult, technically unaware client they may have. :-\

Whilst we all have differing views on what SHOULD be the ideal mix of features within a cart software, I'd ideally like to see the core program remain relatively simple, keeping essential features that benefit most sensible user requirements. There may be a commercial opportunity for a feature laden 'enterprise' version of Opencart to be sold at a much lower cost than the commercial carts out there, for those that demand this feature and that feature.

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Post by SapporoGuy » Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:09 pm

Essentially, when I have mentioned ecommerce "framework" in the past I was thinking basically the same thing.
A solid (stability, speed, security), expandable, versatile core.
Everything else is a module or extension working off of that.

I brought up hooks and Q is working on a layer over-ride type of solution.

Getting there is a matter left up to Daniel at the moment ...

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Post by Xsecrets » Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:00 pm

CUSTOM_UK wrote:programs like Zen and Magento never set out to be the complex,
I'm sure zen didn't, but I'm actually quite sure that was the exact goal of Magento. I'm pretty sure Varien told the dev team to make it as complex and convoluted as possible to keep the prices up.

Yeah we really need to get some better solutions in place to allow modules to do more then it won't be as much of an issue if stuffs not in the core.

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Post by Qphoria » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:04 am

CUSTOM_UK wrote:
Qphoria wrote:yea i really don't understand the zencart comparison... zencart is so different from opencart it may as well be another language.
I am thinking that somewhere in the distant past, programs like Zen and Magento never set out to be the complex, difficult to use, bloated offerings that they are today.
Actually zencart started out as an addon for oscommerce 2.2 called "Shoppe Enhancement Controller". It just added more to the already bloated osc.

I agree that bloating it more isn't the best method, at least not bloating it with regional-only features. That is why I want to focus on extensible features that allow users to make their own changes easier with hooks and overrides.

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Post by SapporoGuy » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:12 am

Read my post ! ;) ;) ;)

Linda was not in on the first round of drafting!

The way I understood (and remember) the email exchanges was that she was on the fence but leaning towards jumping but the reason for being on the fence was that she was worried about the oscommerce side. I could possibly quote this but I'd have to dig through 7 year old emails that have been delegated to some CD or MO or whatever. I wonder if my account still exists :laugh: I doubt that I still have the same access though, if I did that would be :o :o :o

As for being complex. Kim was all guns a blazing to add everything that Linda had to offer.

Wilt let Kim control the original first month, even though he wanted to go beyond oscommerce.
Because of a few of us wanted more she LOCKED down the forums and a few of us basically said FU!

lolo, I doubt if this is on wikipedia ... maybe wikileaks O0

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Post by Qphoria » Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:21 am

I did but ended up just listening to B-boys.
i dunno..I remember having SEC installed on my osc and being impressed at how much better it was.. a month later the webmakercorners site was linking to zencart and all the SEC features were there by default.. But the issue is that they based their cart on oscommerce 2.2 which already was bloated and very web 1.0 so it was doomed from the start.

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