Post by OSWorX » Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:07 am

Per 1. January 2022 the consumer rights regarding digital products (e.g. downloads) and digtal services will change.

The most important rules are
> The mentioned EU directive extends the periode users can claim a "error/bug free" product (here a download) for two (2) years (if it is a cloud or SAAS service, the whole time the contract exists)
> The seller has the obligation to provide a error free software within 14 days - for free - after the bug is detected
> If the downloaded product is published under a "free" license (e.g. GNU/GPL) and no price has to be paid for it, the directive is NOT valid (see (32) English text)

The directive must be implemented by all member states (of the EC - European Countries) not later than the 1. January 2022.

Read the docs:
[EN] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2019/770/oj?locale=en
[EN] https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/c ... in_eu.html
[DE] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2019/770/oj?locale=de
[DE] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richtlini ... ichtlinie)

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Post by paulfeakins » Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:33 pm

OSWorX wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:07 am
> The mentioned EU directive extends the periode users can claim a "error/bug free" product (here a download) for two (2) years
A lot can change in 2 years - all sorts of other parts of a software stack might be updated in that time and even a small change can introduce bugs. If a piece of software is running bug-free for 1 year then any bugs found after that time are likely (though not definitely) new ones introduced by changes outside the developer's control.

OSWorX wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:07 am
The directive must be implemented by all member states (of the EC - European Countries) not later than the 1. January 2022.
That's another reason why I'm glad the UK isn't in the EU anymore, along with the stupid cookie popups, GDPR nonsense, and digital place-of-supply VAT rules!

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Post by OSWorX » Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:04 pm

paulfeakins wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:33 pm
OSWorX wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:07 am
The directive must be implemented by all member states (of the EC - European Countries) not later than the 1. January 2022.
That's another reason why I'm glad the UK isn't in the EU anymore, along with the stupid cookie popups, GDPR nonsense, and digital place-of-supply VAT rules!
Your opinion.
But what do you think, are the other 27 glad not to have the UK anymore "onboard"?
While UK is subjective, what about Scotland (for example)?

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Post by paulfeakins » Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:18 pm

OSWorX wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:04 pm
Your opinion.
But what do you think, are the other 27 glad not to have the UK anymore "onboard"?
While UK is subjective, what about Scotland (for example)?
It seems Scotland would mostly like to remain in the EU, and it seems they might leave the UK and do so.

But how is it, the same people who say we're stronger together and should remain in the EU, say that Scotland should have its independence? Why is independence ok for Scotland but a bad thing for the UK to want?

There are pros and cons to the EU, but their regulation of our industry is just stupid.

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Post by OSWorX » Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:04 pm

paulfeakins wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:18 pm
There are pros and cons to the EU, but their regulation of our industry is just stupid.
While I agree with many of your points (and many not ..), but we all should not forget, that the "Industry" has made rules the last years, many do not agree - and do not want.
As example "cookies".
What the advertising industry made if such lousy text is behind of good and sense!

Yes, some of what the Commission (there are only sitting many useless "burokrates") is doing, is far, far away of usefull.
But also many good improvements are made all over the years.

I think, we let that discussion here Paul - maybe once when we will, meet we could do this while drinking a good glass of Pint.
I really respect what you are doing, so better not discussing about politics.

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Post by paulfeakins » Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:39 pm

OSWorX wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:04 pm
As example "cookies".
What the advertising industry made if such lousy text is behind of good and sense!
Yes indeed, but like Elon Musk said, this should be a browser setting! Because there are ~1 billion websites - should we force every single one of them to annoy users with a popup so that they can block their own cookies? What if the website owner decides not to block cookies even so? They will never be found out! Instead it should be a browser setting and then it would be very easy to properly control cookies! You see the rules are designed by people who really don't understand enough to make proper rules!

OSWorX wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:04 pm
I think, we let that discussion here Paul - maybe once when we will, meet we could do this while drinking a good glass of Pint.
I really respect what you are doing, so better not discussing about politics.
I never get offended or upset by these discussions so don't worry, and of course we respect your excellent work too!

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Post by OSWorX » Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:20 pm

paulfeakins wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:39 pm
Yes indeed, but like Elon Musk said, this should be a browser setting!
...
Instead it should be a browser setting ..
That such exist: DNT
If all would follow this advice, those boring cookie banners become obsolete immediately!

paulfeakins wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:39 pm
OSWorX wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:04 pm
I think, we let that discussion here Paul - maybe once when we will, meet we could do this while drinking a good glass of Pint.
I really respect what you are doing, so better not discussing about politics.
I never get offended or upset by these discussions so don't worry, and of course we respect your excellent work too!
Next time when I will be in London, I hope we both have the time to meet.
btw: how is the Reigate Hill Golf Course to play?

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Post by paulfeakins » Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:02 pm

OSWorX wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:20 pm
If all would follow this advice, those boring cookie banners become obsolete immediately!
Exactly, and the web would be a better place!

OSWorX wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:20 pm
Next time when I will be in London, I hope we both have the time to meet.
btw: how is the Reigate Hill Golf Course to play?
Sure, you could come to the office and join us for lunch perhaps!

The Golf Course is nearby but sadly I'm terrible at golf :laugh:

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Post by jrr » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:29 am

OSWorX wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:20 pm
paulfeakins wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:39 pm
Yes indeed, but like Elon Musk said, this should be a browser setting!
...
Instead it should be a browser setting ..
That such exist: DNT
If all would follow this advice, those boring cookie banners become obsolete immediately!

(stuff about Golf...)
Well, California has laws in place about DNT so it isn't just the EU trying to figure out the Internet...

And the Firefox browser has DNT (Do Not Track) setting under Settings/Custom

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Post by OSWorX » Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:08 am

Thanks for the information - is new to me (California & CalOPPA).
FF is already known - some of my extensions make use of it ..

And what I have meant, if all respect the DNT setting (and all browser would have it), we all would have an easier life.

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Post by Alexcrypto » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:07 pm

OSWorX wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:07 am
Per 1. January 2022 the consumer rights regarding digital products (e.g. downloads) and digtal services will change.

The most important rules are
> The mentioned EU directive extends the periode users can claim a "error/bug free" product (here a download) for two (2) years (if it is a cloud or SAAS service, the whole time the contract exists)
> The seller has the obligation to provide a error free software within 14 days - for free - after the bug is detected
> If the downloaded product is published under a "free" license (e.g. GNU/GPL) and no price has to be paid for it, the directive is NOT valid (see (32) English text)

The directive must be implemented by all member states (of the EC - European Countries) not later than the 1. January 2022.

Read the docs:
[EN] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2019/770/oj?locale=en
[EN] https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/c ... s_in_eu.html
[DE] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2019/770/oj?locale=de
[DE] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richtlini ... ichtlinie)
Thanks a lot for docs, but have you got a french version ?

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Post by OSWorX » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:33 pm

Alexcrypto wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:07 pm
Thanks a lot for docs, but have you got a french version ?
What about that here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2019/770/oj?locale=fr

p.s.: there is a language switch at the top of the page and the ranslation can be also switched to several languages!

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