Post by James » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:20 am

eigenmuse wrote:By the way. A suggestion for Opencart 2.0. Just include the options for EU law because Opencart has more and more users in the EU. Would make things easier for many non-programmers.
Being in the UK i agree an out of the box option of settings for EU law would be pretty awesome, but (you know the but was coming)...OC is international, the Owner lives in HK and the visitor status (analytics) gives us the info that India and USA are top traffic, uk is third. All of the other EU states add up to about the total of the UK (and no that is still way behind the most used even combined with UK)

It would benefit us (us i mean welford media), but will just add another feature to OpenCart that is not needed by everyone so i would say this has <5% of being included. My advice, build a dam good module for it and charge a reasonable price ($10 ~ $40) - if its a module, you can then get users to update "as and when" they need when new laws come out.

@osworx did you sort anything for Heather for a blog yet? She is away for a week now...


J

User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Wed May 27, 2009 6:07 am
Location - Leeds, UK

Post by i2Paq » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:30 pm

James wrote:
eigenmuse wrote:By the way. A suggestion for Opencart 2.0. Just include the options for EU law because Opencart has more and more users in the EU. Would make things easier for many non-programmers.
Being in the UK i agree an out of the box option of settings for EU law would be pretty awesome, but (you know the but was coming)...OC is international, the Owner lives in HK and the visitor status (analytics) gives us the info that India and USA are top traffic, uk is third. All of the other EU states add up to about the total of the UK (and no that is still way behind the most used even combined with UK)

It would benefit us (us i mean welford media), but will just add another feature to OpenCart that is not needed by everyone so i would say this has <5% of being included. My advice, build a dam good module for it and charge a reasonable price ($10 ~ $40) - if its a module, you can then get users to update "as and when" they need when new laws come out.

@osworx did you sort anything for Heather for a blog yet? She is away for a week now...
J
The funny thing is that other carts do offer EU-country compliant carts, so for DIY shop owners these carts are the one to use.

Maybe that should be more important then traffic as less traffic could also mean that people use other carts because they offer EU-law/country related settings.......

Norman in 't Veldt
Moderator OpenCart Forums

_________________ READ and Search BEFORE POSTING _________________

Our FREE search: Find your answer FAST!.

[How to] BTW + Verzend + betaal setup.


User avatar
Global Moderator

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:00 pm
Location - Winkel - The Netherlands

Post by OSWorX » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:49 pm

James wrote:
eigenmuse wrote:By the way. A suggestion for Opencart 2.0. Just include the options for EU law because Opencart has more and more users in the EU. Would make things easier for many non-programmers.
Being in the UK i agree an out of the box option of settings for EU law would be pretty awesome, but (you know the but was coming)...OC is international, the Owner lives in HK and the visitor status (analytics) gives us the info that India and USA are top traffic, uk is third. All of the other EU states add up to about the total of the UK (and no that is still way behind the most used even combined with UK)

It would benefit us (us i mean welford media), but will just add another feature to OpenCart that is not needed by everyone so i would say this has <5% of being included. My advice, build a dam good module for it and charge a reasonable price ($10 ~ $40) - if its a module, you can then get users to update "as and when" they need when new laws come out.

@osworx did you sort anything for Heather for a blog yet? She is away for a week now...


J
There is already an well established module since about more than 3 years:
LEGAL > OpenCart EU-Compliant

Updated regular with the latest regulations this module (better to say package because there are many modules in it) enables each shopowner using OpenCart with just a few single mouseclicks to convert the shop into a 'legal save' shop - for all European Countries.
The price of this package reflects only the scope and the massiv work behind.

Based on the usage I can tell you that it is used many times.

We are reworking the whole module currently (preparing for OC v.2), when ready it will be also published in the OC-Extension store.

@james: not until today, had too much todo. But will write here today an email.

Custom Development / Individuelle Entwicklung .:. Support & Bugfixes

Image Image Image


User avatar
Guru Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:52 pm
Location - Austria

Post by OSWorX » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:59 pm

Okay, for those who wants to read in English:
OpenCart Module LEGAL

Basically the whole site is in German & English, every text is available in both languages - switch between at the right top.

Beside this just for information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_language
German ist the most speaken language in Europe and the 10th worldwide:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weltsprach ... r_Sprecher
Based on that map and calculating the top possible customers (based on income, etc. and beside China) I would say after English and Spanish number 3.

Custom Development / Individuelle Entwicklung .:. Support & Bugfixes

Image Image Image


User avatar
Guru Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:52 pm
Location - Austria

Post by aze_kool » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:44 pm

Just a similing comment : English is an International Language and is spoken all over the world also in those countries where english is not a native language.

Where as EU-Laws about eCommerce might make sense.

But i can't absorb the fact that there are people who misuse this law to their own benefit. they just search eCommerce sites and look for these incompatibility of EU-Laws in a smallest detail and send you the legal notices. one has to pay Money (it can go to 3 digit numbers )for just not making your site compatible in time with new EU-Laws.

Newbie

Posts

Joined
Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:39 pm

Post by OSWorX » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:10 pm

aze_kool wrote:Just a similing comment : English is an International Language and is spoken all over the world also in those countries where english is not a native language.
Can only smile ... you would be surprised to see how many people in Europea wether speak nor understand English.
Fact!

And legal texts have to be displayed in the language the visitor / customer can understand.
So if the visitor comes from Germany, the language has to be in German.
Also the displayed texts, especially terms, withdrawal, shipping, etc.
Worth to talk about.
aze_kool wrote: Where as EU-Laws about eCommerce might make sense.

But i can't absorb the fact that in there are people who misuse this law to their own benefit. they just search eCommerce sites and look for these incompatibility of EU-Laws in a smallest detail and send you the legal notices. one has to pay Money (it can go to 3 digit numbers )for just not making your site compatible in time with new EU-Laws.
A few years ago, especially in Germany there was one guy, guess his name was 'Grafenreuther' or something.
A laywer specialized to punish websites/shops with nothing - well based only on some regulations.

All current regulations are built because too many ignorants (called customers) are living in this world who are thinking if the (for example) last button before the payment is not clearly displayed as 'Kostenpflichtig Kaufen' (in German - translate it by yourself) he has nothing to pay.

Another regulation is the actual withdrawal - now valid for all 28 EU countries.
Before we had nearly 17 different regulations / adivces.

Some of these regulations maybe are stupid, but overall they make sence.
They should cover customers - and not shopowners.

Because too many shops in the past - and currently many which are not located inside the EU, e.g. USA - are only built to make cash as fast as possible.
Customer has to pay ... and will never see purchased articles.
If you want to ask where the goods are, either the website is closed, no telephone number available or the email adress (if given) is wrong.

This and more is protected by the EU-Laws.

Or do you buy in a shop via the web which has no physical address, no real existing telephone number, nobody to reach for?
Guess not.

And about the punishments: they could get up until 100.000,- Euro ... per case.
A bit more then 3 digits.

Custom Development / Individuelle Entwicklung .:. Support & Bugfixes

Image Image Image


User avatar
Guru Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:52 pm
Location - Austria

Post by aze_kool » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:22 pm

Thats True, It protects the consumer no question.
but from the point of view of low-margin seller who who use the opensource products to build up an eCommerce and trying to be more responsible in making there business grow.
They have to deal with so much legallity for something like the button have to say "'Kostenpflichtig Kaufen'" and not only "Kaufen". otherwise be ready to be bankrupt by a lawsuit imposed upon you.

in my opinion for those small incompatibilities one should get a legal notice with a time limit to adjust it to EU-Laws. so that a group of law firms not miss use them.

The big fishes don't even use the opensource ecommerce websites for there products. and have hired there own lawyers.

Newbie

Posts

Joined
Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:39 pm

Post by OSWorX » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:12 am

Well, to open a shop - or webshop - the owner expects to earn money. No doubt.
Just for a quick calculation - based on OpenCart and some important modules you may need (e.g. to be compliant with the laws) - the investment to start will be around 500,- Euro (e.g. hosting, SSL-Cert, template, a few extra modules).

Makes 42,- Euro per month - for the first year.
From the 2nd year on it will be around 12-14,- Euro per month only.

Even you are a 'low-margin seller', if you not sell around a minimum of 2.000,- Euro net per month over the webshop it would be better not to open.
Makes 100,- per month (= 5%) minimum.
From that you have to pay income tax, etc.
Left around 75,- Euro.
Minus the 42 = 33,- Euro you can put in your pocket.
But you have covered the fix costs.

Too less to live, too much to die.

But most of the shops are only a 'side' shop beside the real store somewhere in the city.
Just for marketing.
But if you watch the latest figures, around 43% of the consumers are buying over the internet - average 160,- Euro per shopping.
A billion Euro market.

A single penalty of 2.400 ,- Euro (this is the minimum if the shop is violating the rules), can ruin you.

So what are 500,- against 2.400,- ??
Nothing, niente, nada.

Custom Development / Individuelle Entwicklung .:. Support & Bugfixes

Image Image Image


User avatar
Guru Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:52 pm
Location - Austria

Post by tommyla » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:27 pm

not realy, we norwegians have had a VERY similar law for over a decade now
it works pretty well, it basicly means that the seller have to provide a "right to withdraw form" thats filled out with shop name/order number etc

this differs from the return form in basic way, that the form lets the customer know its rights and if they are not satisfied with the purchase they can return the goods within 14 days and get refund by filling out the form

RMA/return form is just a generic form for returns (repair etc)

the new *EU* one here in norway differs from the old one we used before june 2014, the old one required the shops to cover shipping costs, but the new one is the other way around

Active Member

Posts

Joined
Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:49 pm
Location - Norway
Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests