Post by madimar » Thu May 05, 2011 12:10 am

Just released!

This mod introduces VAT Number and Tax Payer Code information in all cases they are necessary, with the possibility to be viewed or modified by a user, especially with relation to its payment address and invoicing information.

You can check completely all functionalities on my demo site:

http://www.myopencart.xlogic-free.org/oc02/
Admin: demo/demo

Extension download:
http://www.opencart.com/index.php?route ... order=DESC

VAT Number and TPC are managed both at customer side interface (public / catalog) and administration (private / admin) in all their forms. In particular:

Customer Side:
- Registration
- Guest Checkout
- Insert / Edit Account
- Added / Changed in order phase

Admin Side:
- Viewing and editing data in customer management
- Display data in order management and sales notes

For this version, no particular compliancy checks have been introduced, in order to be not binded to each Country requirement. I'm available to evaluate compliancy checks (at least length check) feasibility on request basis for each country, if you will provide me necessary information.
Last edited by i2Paq on Thu May 05, 2011 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title modified, topic moved, link adjusted

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Post by SXGuy » Thu May 05, 2011 4:37 pm

Nice mod, but a few issues i think.

Firstly, company shouldnt be a required field, not all customers are companies.

secondly, vat number should be greyed out, unless company name is entered.
This should also not be mandatory as some companies dont not require registering for vat.

Also, i have no idea what a TPC is, i guess it applies to countries other than the UK.

Also, a question, How does entering a vat number relate to products which include vat?

For example, if i was vat registered in the UK and your store was located in another european country, and i entered my vat number into my account details, does it automatically remove the vat from any products i add to the cart/checkout with?

This i feel, is something which is vitial, reason being, if i was a business, i would be demanding a vat credit after checkout, or not even place an order.

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Post by madimar » Thu May 05, 2011 6:56 pm

Thank you SXGuy, for your comment.
Actually I'm italian and I developed this contribution for Italy where Codice Fiscale (Tax Payer Code) is used for people and Partita IVA (VAT Number) is used for companies (actually things are something more complicated but more or less this is the case).
Now, I was exploring the possibility to extend things for other Countries, but I really need comments like yours in order to understand how to make all suitable for specific other countries.
Coming back to the point.
Firstly, company shouldnt be a required field, not all customers are companies.
You are generally right... actually in my italian version I renamed the field with something like "Company or Name", asking to fill again this field also for people. This is justified by the fact I'm considering first "personal details" as some contact name, not necessarily the final customer or purchasing company.
secondly, vat number should be greyed out, unless company name is entered.
Besides what I mentioned before, this is an interesting suggestion. Anyway collecting yours and others comments, I'm thinking to completely revision the contribution with similar features or even more complex (e.g. to include a checkbox "Tax Exempt" in order to require or not VAT N and similar things).
This should also not be mandatory as some companies dont not require registering for vat.
Also, i have no idea what a TPC is, i guess it applies to countries other than the UK.
Again, at the moment VAt Number is not completely mandatory. Considering italian legislation, one between VAT # or Tax Payer Code (Codice Fiscale) has to be entered.
Also, a question, How does entering a vat number relate to products which include vat?

For example, if i was vat registered in the UK and your store was located in another european country, and i entered my vat number into my account details, does it automatically remove the vat from any products i add to the cart/checkout with?
This is another point I've been considering. Currently the contribution just includes the extra fields and manage them in all the forms (public and admin). There is not any automatic mechanism to remove VAT from order calculation in case of Tax Exempt Company with provided VAT Number. With releation to my previous comment, I'm thinking to implement this.

Please let me know if I clarified your doubts, or anyway, provide me all the details/comments you think could improve and make useful and usable this contribution in your Country, I will try to evaluate development efforts to do that.

thanks in advance for your feedback,

M

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Post by SXGuy » Thu May 05, 2011 11:19 pm

I think you answered all my questions very well :)

idealy i would like to see some sort of colaboration between vat number and vatable products.

So:
If the company is registered for vat in another EU country other than the one suppling the product then all products should remove vat from the price.

As an example, i am in the UK, and registered for VAT, if i buy from you, i should not pay any vat to your country, because this is added at my end instead.

So idealy, some modification based on geo zone, to determine where the customer is from, and if they have a vat number, remove vat from product checkout.

Other methods may be needed for other countries.

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Post by madimar » Sun May 08, 2011 6:14 am

SXGuy wrote: So:
If the company is registered for vat in another EU country other than the one suppling the product then all products should remove vat from the price.

As an example, i am in the UK, and registered for VAT, if i buy from you, i should not pay any vat to your country, because this is added at my end instead.

So idealy, some modification based on geo zone, to determine where the customer is from, and if they have a vat number, remove vat from product checkout.
...hmm, now I'm missing something... what you are describing should be already possible via configuration. If I buy from a geozone where you didn't configure tax classes, I don't pay taxes. This happens for any buyer, with VAT number (company) or not (private).

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Post by SXGuy » Sun May 08, 2011 2:55 pm

yes of course this can be configured via geo zone settings, but! this should only be possible "IF" i am registered for VAT.

Otherwise you should apply your VAT rate from your own country. Thats the point i was making.

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Post by madimar » Sat May 14, 2011 5:34 pm

Just working on big modifications. At the moment I'm concentrating my efforts on US tax system, but things will be adapted for other countries.

Please take a look at:

http://forum.opencart.com/viewtopic.php ... 0&p=156106

ciao

M

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Post by madimar » Tue May 24, 2011 10:46 pm

SXGuy wrote:yes of course this can be configured via geo zone settings, but! this should only be possible "IF" i am registered for VAT.

Otherwise you should apply your VAT rate from your own country. Thats the point i was making.
Hi SXGuy,
I finished my work on US Taxation system and I would like to modify things in order to make the contribution useful also for UK or other EU companies. I was reading again your post but there is still something not completely clear to me. Could you please help me in order to clarify exact requirements?

From your posts, I understand the following desiderata (please confirm or correct):

Store configuration: a store in Italy with vat applied on all products, with this vat tax applied for all EU geo zones (not only Italy).
In this situation, with standard Opencart, all customers (private or companies) from EU will be requested for VAT.

With my contribution I could do the following:

Registration form with the possibility to select customer type:
1) Private citizen or EU companies not caliming for VAT exemption (company optional, VAT number field not required)
2) Italian Company (both company and VAT fields required)
3) EU Company (bot company and VAT fields required)

Customer type 1 is charged for VAT
Customer type 2 is actually charged for VAT too (but VAT number in invoices, allows him to demand a credit to italian taxation system)
Customer type 3 (with valid VAT number) is not charged for VAT

Is this the behavior you expect?

thanks in advance for your cooperation,

regards,

M

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Post by SXGuy » Wed May 25, 2011 1:58 am

yes i think you understood me correctly, but just to make sure, ill clarify my standpoint.

Shop owner based in italy who applies VAT to products.

Customers in italy and EU who DO NOT have a VAT number, pay the italy VAT rate charged on the products.
(No company field required, no vat number field required)

Customers in italy who DO have a VAT number, require company field and VAT field, italian VAT rate is charged on products.
(company field and VAT number field required)

Customers outside italy but are inside the EU who DO have a VAT number, require Company Field and Vat field, VAT has 0% rate charged to products. Customers reclaim VAT on products in their own country at their own countries VAT rate.
(company field and VAT number field required)

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Post by madimar » Wed May 25, 2011 2:57 am

Really clear! Thank you! I will prepare soon a good contribution to do that.

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Post by madimar » Wed May 25, 2011 10:09 pm

Here we are. Released!!!

Please find details here:

http://forum.opencart.com/viewtopic.php ... 83#p158583

and here:

http://www.opencart.com/index.php?route ... on_id=2004

Demo: http://myopencart.hellospace.net/oc1
Admin: demo/demo

Comments are wellcome!

M

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Post by SXGuy » Thu May 26, 2011 3:01 pm

Looks good, did you impliment a VAT number validation? if not, contact me and i can point you in the right direction about getting it validated.

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Post by madimar » Thu May 26, 2011 4:33 pm

Thank you SXGuy,
currently VAT Number validation is not included but I was investigating the better way to include it. More than the web interface specification (with vies or isvat...) I'm wondering if it is better not include validation in registration form.
I'm rather oriented to include validation (via web access) in Admin, so the admin can check and decide to approve or not the customer, or asking for clarifications.
This idea because I'm experiencing frequent failures with validation sites, or anyway, I think maybe there are situations where validation fails without real reasons. In these cases the effect is you loose a potential customer...
With the other solution, the registration is anyway accepted, then the admin can check and do all the necessary verifications.

What do you think about? Anyway if you can give me your experience and point me to the right direction... you are really wellcome!!!

Thank you,

M

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Post by SXGuy » Thu May 26, 2011 7:04 pm

You are correct, the validation api does go down sometimes, and that can result in a loss of customer.

I have seen that on their own website if the api is down, they report a message to say so, however, from looking at the api itself, it only ever seems to return 2 values, either its valid, or not valid.

If there was a way to detect when the api was down, you could include a message to the customer saying this, and then vat is applied the usual way until validation can be checked.

But i think your method may be the best idea, and that would be to make all orders which include a VAT number "pending" until the shop owner can validate the VAT number, and which point, order becomes complete and VAT is handled in the right way.

There does need to be some form of checking for a VAT number regardless of the method you choose, to cover the shop owner for any liabilities in unclaimed VAT.

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Post by pbenfield » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:52 pm

I have read the above VAT posts.

When when importing from an EU company you do not have to pay the vat payable within that country.

The supplier has to include on their invoice the vat tax number within that country which will be available to the UK customs auhtority.

At the end of the month you should make these invoices available to the UK customs who will then decide to tax the import at the amount owing as many product are duty and tax free. Private persons will have a set allowance they can import FOC after that it is fully chargeable.

Business are charged at the full rate as they can set off against the tax they have paid.

There has been many cases where European suppliers charge their vat to get more profit for their goods

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Post by SXGuy » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:25 pm

if a seller in the uk, buys aqusitions from another EU country, vat is 0% from the country of purchase, vat at your own countries rate is then added for reclaim, once the invoice is added to the vat return for that period.

HMRC Require a EU Sales list along with the vat return, but thats only if you supply goods to another eu country, An EU Purchase list, from what i gather is not needed, unless you have a high purchase rate from another eu country.

Providing the purchases from an eu country is displayed seperately on the vat return (which it is) and vat is applied to the purchase at the current rate for your country, it is also minused off against the same amount on the vat return. I know it sounds like a silly way of doing it, but im afraid thats how they want it.

A supplier from another eu country should only charge vat if they do not hold the buyers vat number.
All eu purchase invoices should include their own vat number, or a number relating the vat dependant on the countries requirements.

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Post by madimar » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:32 pm

Hallo guys!
I was reading your interesting discussion... so, as far as I'm understanding, my implementation can be considered correct and compliant to EU laws, can't it?

regards,

M

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Post by pbenfield » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:19 am

AS I have stated there is NO vat charged when buying from another EU country.

The invoice MUST and MUST have the tax number of the company even if it for £1.

There is no way round this.

The reason being there is an agreement between all countries product imported is ONLY liable to tax in the EU country of import. ie 20% when coming into the country. Remember some goods are tax free and some reduced always check with the customs.

Quite simple.

This applies now to all e-commerce business to the point PAYPAL could have problems with various EU countries on unpaid tax. Read the articles on this as all fund s for paypal go to Luxembourg where it is said they are a bank and thus avoid registering with various countries under banking rules. Paypal is solely owned by ebay USA and has only acted as a money agent in the past.

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Post by madimar » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:53 pm

OK, now my contribution work exactly in that way.
A company registers with VAT number and then it is included every now and then. In addition it is tax exempted if not store home-country based.

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Post by madimar » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:04 pm

Just released a new version of my premium mod, including VAT number web check with EU VIES official DB.
From admin settings it is also possible to set the behaviour in case of VIES unavailability, allowing the registration in that case (approving or not the customer).

Everything can be checked on my demo site:

http://www.opencartzoom.com/test
admin:demo/demo

Extension store link: http://www.opencart.com/index.php?route ... on_id=2004

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