Post by communit » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:02 am

Hi All,

Not sure if you have had this topic before but I've just invested the best £40 in an excellent Joomla 1.7.5 integration of OpenCart. These guys have made OpenCart into a Joomla components and its practically seamless. Get it here: http://www.joomace.net/joomla-extension ... migosid=17.

I'm implementing it om my site at http://www.3rcomputers.co.uk if you want to see it in action.

It's well impressive!

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Post by OSWorX » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:47 am

Well great when you are so enthuastic.

But, had 4 customes the last 3 weeks, they bought this software from these guys (it is not free!).
Well, if they were satisfied the would have been not contacted me.
After looking where the troubles are, they decided to install a pure OpenCart only - and requested the money back.

Reasons are:
* this shop is that heavily modified (not really a integration into Joomla like other 3pd software is usually made), that every additonal extension may result in serious bugs!
* Also with some templates this shop is still impossible to handle them.
* Finally even not VQMod was able to run without any error.
* Required custom changes in a few core files are nearly impossible (because the way this shop works inside Joomla) - specially for novices!

Result was (for these customers): onyl frustration (that why they came at least to me).

Not to forget: Joomla 1.7.x is only a temporary release, current is 2.5.x and 3.x will be published this year in Autumn.
As I know the roadmap of Joomla, this shop will be not usable anymore then!
So what if the support for Joomla will be suspended (like for 1.5. ad 1.6)?
You will be alone with - possible - serious bugs/security leaks.

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Post by communit » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:30 pm

Hi... After readying my post it does sound a little cheesy ;D , however I've been using and deploying Joomla based websites for over 3 years and absolutely love it and the support for it in the community. I've also been delploying OpenCart solutions for about the same time and have always hoped for a way to merge the two platforms as I absolutely hate :crazy: VirtueMart, its bulky and cumbersome to configure/support yada yada yaaa!!! Anyway I stumbled across AceShop by accident and couldn't believe it would work. I stumped up the money and jumped straight in and so far I love it. This is just my opinion and so far I've not had any problems with intergration.

If I do I'll let you all know.

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Post by TomC » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:07 am

As someone who, like Dave, has been working with Joomla based sites for several years - and as someone who only recently "discovered" OpenCart as a relatively comparable and viable alternative to, say, Magento - this discussion topic is VERY INFORMATIVE and USEFUL for me.

I've been a long-term member - and (now) year long Moderator/Support - with one of the more reputable Joomla Template Clubs .... so I have a certain comfort level with the Joomla CMS. Like Dave, I too have been consistently disappointed with the lackluster state and capacity of the VirtueMart component (for Joomla). I have always been impressed with Magento - but the asking prices for most of the 3rd-Party themes and extensions has been consistently high ... especially relative to what I have seen thus far throughout the OpenCart Extension Directory.

So, hearing that there is a potentially viable alternative to VirtueMart - and relatively comparable alternative to Magento - for integrating OpenCart in with Joomla in AceShop is a VERY WELCOME discovery.



What I would like to see are more live/practical examples of sites utilizing AceShop with their Joomla based sites.




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Post by OSWorX » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:34 am

The title of this discussion should be program .. but the truth is ..

1. aceShop use a very old (and in the meantime outdated) OpenCart base: 1.5.1.3
Unfortunately they do not offer their solution with the latest OpenCart release (currently 1.5.3.1) which has some important features (for European shops) like VAT number, etc.
After asking them when they are 'willing' to publish a version with OC 1.5.3.1 - no really answer came back

2. JooCart is better in this point, they are offering their release with the latest OpenCart version.
A very big drawback (!!) is that they are obfuscating some files (not too hard to decrypt if someone knows how) but this is NOT in the sense of OpenSource - even not what the GPL has written!

Direct head to head (from my point of view) is:

JooCart aceShop
Perfomance + -
Compatibility (3PD) = / - = / -
Source code -- +

Why a - at compatibility?
Because both are doing some mechanism to perfom mootools, jQuery etc. within one framework.
That will work only with a standard OpenCart installation, 3PD (third party) extension will fail mostly (if they are not written to be compatible [mostly js])

OpenSource (and GPL is one license for this) has to be readable for humans (see their license terms).
JooCart is obfuscating some files - you never will know what they are doing in the background - even embedding a backdoor, submitting database / customer details ??

Conclusion: aceShop may be fine only for those who do not need details like VAT number, etc. (OpenCart 1.5.3.1 features) - otherwise not really my solution.
JooCart would be - but will clearly fail!

Does mean?
Currently there is not only one acceptable solution on the market to run Joomla with an embedded shop (here OpenCart).

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Post by rph » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:22 am

The problem is AceShop states "All OpenCart extensions can be installed/used" which isn't true at all.

-Ryan


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Post by OSWorX » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:09 pm

rph wrote:The problem is AceShop states "All OpenCart extensions can be installed/used" which isn't true at all.
That is why I gave a - at compatibility.

btw: I wanted to help them and offered them my help.
They were not very amused .....

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Post by TomC » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:28 pm

So what seems to be the CRUX of the issue here with regard to AceShop ??

Is it the perception that the AceShop Developers are relatively slow or reactive (as opposed to being pro-active) with regard to staying on top of compatibility issues for any/all - or at least most - extensions and/or especially 3rd-Party extensions?

Is it a perceived issue of the AceShop Developers not being pro-active in making sure that their AceShop product is consistently up-to-date/current with the latest OpenCart updates/releases?



I ask these questions because I think this is an issue that represents too important a potential to not discuss further and hopefully - though MUTUALLY CONSTRUCTIVE/RESPECTFUL DISCUSSION and COOPERATION between the parties involved - arrive at a mutually beneficial resolution.


Moreover .... as a Moderator/Support Member for one of the more reputable Joomla Template Clubs, I would love to be able to discuss (with the template club CEO and developers) the possibility of development of future eStore themed templates utilizing an AceShop/OpenCart integration - which could be beneficial to EVERYONE involved.



Looking forward to more constructive/cooperative discussion on this issue.


:)

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Post by rph » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:19 am

DenisDulici wrote:
rph wrote:The problem is AceShop states "All OpenCart extensions can be installed/used" which isn't true at all.
I'm sorry but IT IS true. As stated on our site, all OpenCart extensions (modules, payment gateways etc. except themes) can be installed/used:
http://www.joomace.net/joomla-extension ... ature-list

This does not mean that all of them will be installed/used without any issue (out of the box).
Wow. Just... wow.

-Ryan


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Post by TomC » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:55 am

Seems like there is a bit of tension and unnecessary antagonism going on back-and-forth within this discussion.

Rather than continuing to cast stones and trying to "one up" the other, why not we all try to communicate WITH each other toward a common goal ... to see what needs to be done to have a very cool OpenCart involved/promoting product - in this case, AceShop - up to speed and functioning across all aspects of OpenCart integration (including extension installation/function issues).

Seriously, this can only serve to further exposure and usage of OpenCart - in this case, in my opinion, as a much better and more dynamic shopping cart option than the likes of VirtueMart, JoomShopping, HikaShop or RedShop.



Here's hoping that cooler heads will prevail.

:-\

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Post by rph » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:01 am

I appreciate playing peacemaker but there's not much to be done here. AceShop isn't a big open source project like OpenCart. It belongs to the AceShop developers and they can, do, and absolutely should have complete control over it (as restricted source there's not much code review that would go on anyway).

But I will say as both a developer and consumer I find this distinction between "use" and "work" to be downright deceitful. It's not how I treat my potential customers and it's now how I expect to be treated. If the AceShop team is willing to modify extensions to work with AceShop, great. But that's not what they advertise and given the number of people who come to me when one of my mods doesn't work with AceShop that's not what their customers expect either.

-Ryan


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Post by OSWorX » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:54 pm

rph wrote:I appreciate playing peacemaker but there's not much to be done here. AceShop isn't a big open source project like OpenCart. It belongs to the AceShop developers and they can, do, and absolutely should have complete control over it (as restricted source there's not much code review that would go on anyway).

But I will say as both a developer and consumer I find this distinction between "use" and "work" to be downright deceitful. It's not how I treat my potential customers and it's now how I expect to be treated. If the AceShop team is willing to modify extensions to work with AceShop, great. But that's not what they advertise and given the number of people who come to me when one of my mods doesn't work with AceShop that's not what their customers expect either.
Same to me (just another continent and other language).

The thing is, that a native speaker (English) may understand the difference (while there should be none between 'work' and 'use' [usage]), others may not see that.
And paying for something which is finally useless.

Useless also in the sense of 'usage' - as written above - that this published version of aceshop is using an outdated OpenCart version as base.

To say '... we are using the - last - bug free version ...' is completely nonsens, because all versions of OpenCart do have (or had) bugs, but that is another discussion.

If a customer buys the current version of aceshop, he can expect that he gets the latest version of OpenCart.
The more, because at the website of aceshop there is not only one statement which version of OpenCart is used (or it is that hidden and not easy to find).

So, the customer is buying that old release (which was btw. an intermediate release) which is missing some importent features, introduced with the 1.5.3.x branch.

Now when aceshop (or the guy from them) is telling us (me in a personal email last sunday - so he knows exactly who I am!) that if (my) extensions are compatible with 1.5.x they are all possible and will have no problems with their solution.
Simply not true.

But to make a difference between 'use' and 'work' is simply an impudence.

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Post by TomC » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:56 pm

It sounds to me that a key/necessary feature of AceShop should/would be the ability/capacity to be able to upgrade the version of OpenCart as needed - and still have a functioning AceShop store function within one's Joomla CMS based website.

Speaking as someone who is not (and likely never will be) a programmer/coder - I suppose that is easier said than done. :-\

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Post by OSWorX » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:13 pm

DenisDulici wrote:This is how professionals do their job, stop rocking the boat...
Ah yes, I see:
Version history

2.8 (2011-12-08)
Added support of boxes for new OpenCart versions (1.5.1.3)
Added MagicScroll support on boxes for new OpenCart versions
Added support of non-default admin folder path without module reinstall
Changed manual installation instructions
Updated back-end module page design
Fixed some minor bugs
Do not know what the h... you want to tell us with that ??
See only that this is very old .. but fits to your published version.

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Post by TomC » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:31 pm

Okay, obviously I am "the new guy" here ... so if there is some kind of history of difficulty between some of the longstanding/seasoned OpenCart people and the AceShop people - I am obviously not aware of it.


Nevertheless, as a "new guy" to both OpenCart and - by proxy - AceShop ... and reading the back-and-forth within this discussion thread ... I guess I'm simply not understanding what can possibly be accomplished by mudslinging back-and-forth.

From what I've been able to gather from the conversation here ... the current stable version of OpenCart is v1.5.3, and the AceShop team is within two weeks of releasing their updated version - which I'm assuming will be loaded with the latest/current version of OpenCart. Is this correct?



If the above is correct .... then what other (if any) issues might there be for which both the OpenCart and AceShop folks can constructively discuss and cooperate on so as to foster a better, and less antagonistic, relationship moving forward?

Seriously guys .... WHAT is to be gained on either side of the table from continuing to antagonistically argue and mudsling back and forth?

::)

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Post by rph » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:43 am

TomC wrote:So what seems to be the CRUX of the issue here with regard to AceShop ??
I don't have an issue with the OpenCart version. Code overhauls can take a major amount of work which makes rapidly updating to newer versions of the parent code unfeasible. Plus most stores are looking for stability over features anyway so as long as bug fixes are being backported in I think that's fine.

The issue is AceShop is advertised in a way which is highly misleading. This in turn creates work for third-party developers because AceShop customers, who believe they can "use" any OpenCart extension, invariably go to them for support when they don't work. Since Denis doesn't seem interested in changing the description wording to accurately reflect AceShop then there's probably not much else to discuss.

-Ryan


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Post by TomC » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:10 am

rph wrote:
TomC wrote: The issue is AceShop is advertised in a way which is highly misleading. This in turn creates work for third-party developers because AceShop customers, who believe they can "use" any OpenCart extension, invariably go to them for support when they don't work.
If this being the case - and seeing as the AceShop website indicates that "all OpenCart extensions (modules, payments etc. except themes) can be installed/used," then it would seem to me that the AceShop Team would/should be ready, willing and able - as a matter of quality customer service and professional integrity - to address and assist AceShop customers/subscribers who encounter issues (such as the issue of extension compatibility) as timely and completely as possible.

Otherwise, if there is a "disclaimer" that should be communicated to AceShop customers - both current and prospective - then this information should be clearly posted on the AceShop site page(s) as well.



DenisDulici wrote:@rph & TomC
We've more than intention to work with third-party developers and you'll see this in action after about 2-3 weeks. We've really cool in things in our oven which will ease us, third-party developers and customers so it's just a matter of time.
For myself, this is encouraging information to read ... and I very much look forward to the prospective update(s) and information.

Denis ....
Perhaps, as an idea, you might consider updating the AceShop Blog with some information as to issues the AceShop Team is aware of and the solutions/updates that are actively (and pro-actively) being worked on at this time. Current information and content is KEY to customer relationship management - again, both current and future/prospective customers (such as myself). 8)



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Last edited by TomC on Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by TomC » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:22 am

DenisDulici wrote:
TomC wrote:the AceShop Team would/should be ready, willing and able - as a matter of quality customer service and professional integrity - to address and assist AceShop customers/subscribers who encounter issues (such as the issue of extension compatibility) as timely and completely as possible.
This is exactly what we currently do for any issue, that's why we have such a high rate of satisfaction, they have a team of 12 people ready to help.
Again, very informative and encouraging information to read. :)

After having recently "discovered" OpenCart and becoming ever more impressed and enthused about using OC for my ecommerce project - as well as already having several years of experience working with Joomla (and being consistently disappointed and disillusioned with the lacking VirtueMart component) - a possible "best of both worlds" integration solution such as AceShop is very important to me - as is my ability to utilize most any OC compatible extension I will be wanting to use toward enhancing my ecommerce site for the best and most dynamic/customer use oriented experience it can be.



Here's looking forward to - and hoping for - a positive solution to the issues/concerns raised throughout this discussion !!!

:)

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Post by mhoq » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:33 pm

AceShop(Previous name was Ayelshop) is copied from JooCart.They brought product from softPHP,changed it and added some new features and started selling.
When they(AceShop) brought JooCart it was for OpenCart 1.5.1.3.So Aceshop is still using same version(OpenCart 1.5.1.3)
But after that JooCart released many new versions when OpenCart release new versions.
Recently(21 Aug,2012) Engin yilmaz(I think: he is the owner of Aceshop now) brought JooCart from us.Order Id 1017.
Did he buy that JooCart to copy again AceShop from new advanced JooCart?
Stop copying and selling others code

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Post by TomC » Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:42 am

DenisDulici wrote:MijoShop, the new OpenCart - Joomla integration, uses the latest OpenCart 1.5.4 which non (AceShop and JooCart) have inside yet:

http://www.mijosoft.com/blog/mijoshop-1 ... 154-inside

More new things that concern the OpenCart community are coming soon.


.
This looks promising

:)

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