Post by rph » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:50 am

Qphoria wrote:
rph wrote:Q, if they checkout as a guest they no longer have any order history and automated account functions like re-order and returns.
I don't see how.
Guests don't have an order history and all the built in functions that come with it. They can't check on the status of their order, they can't re-order from a previous purchase, and they can't automate returns. They also won't have any new address information they may have entered saved to an account.

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Post by Qphoria » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:55 am

rph wrote:
Qphoria wrote:
rph wrote:Q, if they checkout as a guest they no longer have any order history and automated account functions like re-order and returns.
I don't see how.
Guests don't have an order history and all the built in functions that come with it. They can't check on the status of their order, they can't re-order from a previous purchase, and they can't automate returns. They also won't have any new address information they may have entered saved to an account.
But they aren't guests once the account is created. Once the customer_id is filled in on the order, it all links up. And you can simply run the query to enter that info into the order history.. The point is you have all that information at that point.. all you need to do is execute a few queries to update the correct tables.

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Post by rph » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:44 am

I'm talking about when a user account already exists Q. I'm working under the assumption every non-registered user checkout will proceed as a guest until the point where they can add a password to complete the order as a registered user or just complete the checkout as a guest.

Now if the person forgot they previously registered and uses a different password there's a problem. You can't just throw it on to the existing account using email and shipping address because they're not unique or confidential enough (I've seen a real world scenario where a completely different person's email was supplied because the user forgot to put in a period). You could complete the order as a guest but then they'd lose all the registered user abilities with it which is likely one of the reasons they registered in the first place. You could try to get them to log in to an account by suggesting a password reset (preferably very early in the process) but that still leaves the high abandonment issue.

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Post by Qphoria » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:18 am

We are talking about the same thing. As I said above, you'd have to ignore the new password they enter because obviously if I know your email and can just change the password on your account by buying one item that wouldn't be good. But the order is an order. It's only identifying factor is the customer_id field

So if a guest that already has an account checks out using the email "bob@smith.com".. on the last page you would show a screen like this:
"Thank you for your order, It looks like you already have an account with us using this email. Please login to the account to have this order added to your history:
Email: __bob@smith.com__
Password:______________

If you'd prefer not to have this order associated with your account, then do nothing and have a pleasant day."
When they login, simply take their customer_id and update the order id with that customer id... and instantly the order is added to their history

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Post by rph » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:46 am

Q, the order_id is unset on the success screen and the only way to get back into their account is (presumably) a password reset.

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Post by Qphoria » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:56 am

rph wrote:Q, the order_id is unset on the success screen and the only way to get back into their account is (presumably) a password reset.
oh cmon.. obviously this would be a custom success page that doesn't unset them at this point. It's 10 lines of "unset" calls.. As I said above it would need to be deferred to another step. In fact that would be the only challenge is when to unset that info. If they login or create a new account its easy, just append those lines to the end of the ajax callback. But if they just ignore it and leave, I guess one option would be to move the code on the header.php to run only when the "success_page_flag" session variable was set, this way it ensures clearing of the session if they browse to another page. Easy peasy

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Post by rph » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:54 am

If they come back and their cookies have been cleared there's no way to get the order_id. If they don't complete the password reset and come back at a future date the cart and checkout is populated with all the completed order data.

Now that I think about it the best method would probably be to push a custom password reset with the order confirmation email that's tied to the order_id. That way the customer can choose to tie the order to the account if they want to and it doesn't jeopardize order completion for people who don't

They've still wasted time re-entering all the same billing/shipping info but that's something that probably isn't too big an issue since the site owner's main concern is getting the order.

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Post by Qphoria » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:22 am

rph wrote:If they come back and their cookies have been cleared there's no way to get the order_id. If they don't complete the password reset and come back at a future date the cart and checkout is populated with all the completed order data.

Now that I think about it the best method would probably be to push a custom password reset with the order confirmation email that's tied to the order_id. That way the customer can choose to tie the order to the account if they want to and it doesn't jeopardize order completion for people who don't

They've still wasted time re-entering all the same billing/shipping info but that's something that probably isn't too big an issue since the site owner's main concern is getting the order.
I don't know what you are talking about. They are not leaving and coming back from anything. The order id is cleared on the success page normally:

Code: Select all

unset($this->session->data['order_id']);
Simply remove that from that list and set a new variable:

Code: Select all

$this->session->data['success_flag'] = true;
And add the ajax callback for the create/login form.

In the header.php file add code anywhere that says

Code: Select all

if (isset($this->session->data['success_flag'])) {
    unset($this->session->data['success_flag']);
    unset($this->session->data['order_id']);
}
So if they leave the success page without doing anything, it finishes the session clear.

After talking it all out I realize its actually pretty simple and very much doable. A simple vqmod on the success page to do what I just said is all that is needed.

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Post by OC2PS » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:47 pm

rph wrote:
OC2PS wrote:When going from 1st page to 2nd page, the system already has the email of the customer and can match against database to check if account exists.
Yes, but they've already re-entered all their address information at that point.
Why is that a problem? Even though customer entered the address right now, there's a good probability that they have that address in their account too.
rph wrote:You're also creating issues for stores that deal with digital products.
How's that?

If you checkout as guest in the current system and you buy digital products, how does that work?

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Post by OC2PS » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:59 pm

So, once again, why is this workflow a problem?
  1. Checkout page 1: 2 options
    1. Log in, or
    2. Enter address (including email address), and hit Continue
      1. Intermediate step: Check email to see if account exists
      2. If email exists then show message "An account already exists with that email address. If you have forgotten the password, click here.
        Login
        Email: _____________________
        Password: ___________"
  2. Checkout page 2:
    1. Address modify
    2. Payment options
    3. Shipping options
    4. Products
    5. Totals
    6. Coupon (if activated)
    7. Voucher (if activated)
    8. Rewards points (if activated)
    9. Store credits (if activated)
    10. Password to create account (if not logged in)
    11. T&C
    12. Order confirmation

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Post by rph » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:22 pm

Qphoria wrote:I don't know what you are talking about. The order id is cleared on the success page normally
If you don't know your password then there's no way to get back into the account without a password reset. With the high use of web accessed email accounts that means leaving the page for the majority of users. And password resets have a 75% abandonment rate according to the article.

Sessions should never be counted on for anything long term. Sessions are lost when cookies are cleared. Sessions are lost when they expire. Sessions are lost through regular server garbage cleanup.

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Post by rph » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:25 pm

OC2PS wrote:
rph wrote:Yes, but they've already re-entered all their address information at that point.
Why is that a problem? Even though customer entered the address right now, there's a good probability that they have that address in their account too.
It's not a problem, it's just a convenience issue.
OC2PS wrote:
rph wrote:You're also creating issues for stores that deal with digital products.
How's that?
Downloads can only be accessed through an account.
Last edited by rph on Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by OC2PS » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:47 pm

rph wrote:
OC2PS wrote:
rph wrote:Yes, but they've already re-entered all their address information at that point.
Why is that a problem? Even though customer entered the address right now, there's a good probability that they have that address in their account too.
It's not a problem, it's just a convenience issue.
It is a convenience issue ONLY if the customer doesn't have that address in his/her account.

So we are talking about an edge case within an edge case, and then too not about a real issue but an inconvenience. Should we let this stand in the way of user experience for the vast swathe of customers?
OC2PS wrote:
rph wrote:You're also creating issues for stores that deal with digital products.
How's that?
Downloads can only be accessed through an account.[/quote]
Yes. But that's always true. Why does this workflow cause this issue?

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Post by Qphoria » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:11 pm

rph wrote:
Qphoria wrote:I don't know what you are talking about. The order id is cleared on the success page normally
If you don't know your password then there's no way to get back into the account without a password reset. With the high use of web accessed email accounts that means leaving the page for the majority of users. And password resets have a 75% abandonment rate according to the article.

Sessions should never be counted on for anything long term. Sessions are lost when cookies are cleared. Sessions are lost when they expire. Sessions are lost through regular server garbage cleanup.
Ok you seem to be focused on the case where guest with existing account checks out and doesn't know his password. Then you are right, there isn't time for a complex password reset, especially when my success_flag will force the order_id session to clear when another page (like the forgot password page) is loaded.

Still not really an issue. You just make it simple and say "If you don't know your password, then this order will not be added to your history". It isn't like the customer even cared to remember that he had an account anyway, so he likely doesn't care. Plus the order is already set and the customer didn't do anything more or less than he expected to do from the start. So there is no worry of abandonment.

The only end result here is that in this case, a careless customer who forgot he had an account and forgot his password doesn't get his latest order automatically added to his account. Too bad for him. He is just treated like a guest for this one order. Afterwards he can do the forgot password step so that for his next order, he will log in.

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Post by OC2PS » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:22 pm

Actually, there's an alternative for some shop owners: Guest checkout ONLY system.

In this case none of the customers will have any accounts. It's a very transactional system, and will not provide some of the benefits of an account. But for some shop owners, it may be a Godsend. Customers of http://www.gettingpersonal.co.uk/ for example greatly appreciate the fact that they don't need an account. They can still track their orders via a link sent in their emails. Same goes for digital products.

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Post by rph » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:57 pm

Qphoria wrote:Ok you seem to be focused on the case where guest with existing account checks out and doesn't know his password.
Yes. Everything else is arbitrarily easy to do.

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Post by rph » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:09 pm

OC2PS wrote:
rph wrote:Downloads can only be accessed through an account.
Yes. But that's always true. Why does this workflow cause this issue?
Since a customer has to be registered for digital downloads the method the article suggests to curb cart abandonment (guest checkout default with optional account creation) is impossible. At least not without a lot more work on a custom system.

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Post by chrisb123 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:05 am

Qphoria,

Have you thought of incorporating postcode anywhere as an extension to this checkout module?

If you aren't familiar with their service it allows customers to enter their postcode and the rest of the address is auto filled thus saving time for the customer and lowering abandonment.

Its mostly useful for UK opencart users but worth investigate imo.

Code samples: http://www.postcodeanywhere.co.uk/suppo ... -code.aspx

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Post by OC2PS » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:49 pm

rph wrote:
OC2PS wrote:
rph wrote:Downloads can only be accessed through an account.
Yes. But that's always true. Why does this workflow cause this issue?
Since a customer has to be registered for digital downloads the method the article suggests to curb cart abandonment (guest checkout default with optional account creation) is impossible. At least not without a lot more work on a custom system.
But that's not a problem due to uber checkout, or the guest checkout system.

I know there are (non-OpenCart) shops that sell digital downloads with only guest checkout. Customers get personalized download links, instead of having download links saved on an account page.

Apart from downloads, what other "management" of downloads can you do in OpenCart?

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Post by rph » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:12 pm

OC2PS wrote:I know there are (non-OpenCart) shops that sell digital downloads with only guest checkout. Customers get personalized download links, instead of having download links saved on an account page.
Hence my statement on having to write a whole new custom system.

Does no one actually read what I say before replying? :bang:

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