Post by Qphoria » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:47 pm

It was released btw.. redownload

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Post by TToc » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:35 pm

Thats brilliant Qphoria, thank you. :)

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Post by TToc » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:07 pm

Hi Qphoria, when upgrading to a newer version of your checkout, is it safe to just upload and overwrite the previous files? I couldn't see anything about upgrading in the docs, so just wanted to make sure. Thanks.

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Post by Qphoria » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:19 am

Yes.. almost all module updates are just uploading of new files. There are a few new settings in the admin but they default to off in the case that you don't update it.

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Post by TToc » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:57 pm

Thats great, I appreciate the help, thank you.

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Post by OC2PS » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:49 pm

Fantastic idea, Q. I just bought it. About to install.

A couple of first thoughts:
  1. The language files repeat certain variables within even the same file! This may be eliminated.
  2. Perhaps you could try to use some of the variables already declared in cart and checkout language files. It doesn't matter for English shops, but does matter for other languages as then folks have to re-translate large parts (or at least search and paste)..which is wasteful.
  3. Please consider moving the "Account creation" box (i.e. provide password) to the end of the 2nd step/page, instead of the 1st step/page
Once again, thanks for a fantastic plugin. I've been rooting for something like this for long. I haven't installed it yet, but since it's from Q, I am sure it will work great!

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Post by OC2PS » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:19 pm

Installed it.

Seems lots of language fields are not being used at all. e.g.
  • Section headers, e.g. text_shipping_method
  • Section descriptions. e.g. text_shipping_methods
  • Help text, e.g. text_coupon
Then there is one or two hard to decipher language variables, e.g. entry_account

Also, some cosmetic things:
  • On page 1, email box is tiny and password box is huge. Should be other way round.
  • Uses its own Button images. Terrible idea! Should really use the theme's button images.
  • For most part, shouldn't even have a separate css...should just merge into existing theme by using active css
Overall very happy with the extension, and hope you can make these small usability tweaks.
(or I could make them and send to you, if you are happy to merge)

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Post by Qphoria » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:08 pm

OC2PS wrote:Installed it.

Seems lots of language fields are not being used at all. e.g.
  • Section headers, e.g. text_shipping_method
  • Section descriptions. e.g. text_shipping_methods
  • Help text, e.g. text_coupon
Then there is one or two hard to decipher language variables, e.g. entry_account

Also, some cosmetic things:
  • On page 1, email box is tiny and password box is huge. Should be other way round.
  • Uses its own Button images. Terrible idea! Should really use the theme's button images.
  • For most part, shouldn't even have a separate css...should just merge into existing theme by using active css
Overall very happy with the extension, and hope you can make these small usability tweaks.
(or I could make them and send to you, if you are happy to merge)
1. Yea there are some left overs in the language file.. some of it is work in progress for ideas that may or may not be implemented. Not worth the effort to worry about.

2. email box is same size as password box in my version. Not sure what you are seeing. They are not even sized.. they stylesheets take care of that.

3. No it does not use its own button images. You have apparently never tried to code for OpenCart 1.5.0 through 1.5.4 before.. Daniel's willy-nilly changes for the button code has complicated the hell out of trying to make it work out of the box.
1.5.0 used <a class="button> with <span> tags as the other button half
1.5.1 used <a class="button> with border radius and no span tags
1.5.2+ uses <input type="button"> with border radius
So to make it work I do a version check to decide which format. But they all use class="button" which comes from the current theme's stylesheet. I do have 151 buttons added only because I couldn't find a better way without having multiple custom stylesheets for each version which I didn't want to do.. so yea if using 151 there is some hokeyness. But its time you people upgraded anyway.

It only has a separate stylesheet to ensure compatibility with custom themes. Too many wanna-be theme makers making crap out there, so I only have basic structural styles added to the ucstyle.css file to maintain the UC layout on stupid themes.

A lot more thought went into this than you think padawan :)

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Post by OC2PS » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:17 pm

Qphoria wrote:You have apparently never tried to code for OpenCart 1.5.0 through 1.5.4 before..
I've not, it's true.

It's sad that there are random changes which make your life difficult. I understand why it may be so...it's hard to keep track of every little thing...but OpenCart has grown big enough that these things matter now and should be managed properly.
Qphoria wrote:A lot more thought went into this than you think young padawan :)
I never doubted that a lot of thought went into the coding. I just figured that most of it focused on the functionality and that's why I wasn't getting great visual results in Default theme.

Perhaps I am wrong. Anyway, thanks for the fantastic piece of work.

I am working on trying to make the visual sexy on Default theme...all using only vQmods ;)
OC2PS wrote:3. Please consider moving the "Account creation" box (i.e. provide password) to the end of the 2nd step/page, instead of the 1st step/page
What do you say to this? Fantastic idea - you will do it, Meh - maybe if you have too much time, or Terrible idea - forget about it?

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Post by Qphoria » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:47 pm

well it is a bit messy.. truth be told it started out as a port of my old Easy Checkout for 1.4 which was coded back in a time where ajax and jQuery were 2 scary intimidating words to me. I was going for a straight port from that at first... then my current knowledge and experience took over and revamped the entire process. So there is a lot of left over 1.4.x stuff in there that I've been cleaning up as I see it.

Web layout designing is not my strong suit and I agree there could be some better methods and as I learn more about what looks good and proper theming I will improve it. The way it is now I've managed to get it to work with many custom themes out of the box. But not without some minor adjustments still needed as there is no one size fits all.

As it is now, it should be perfectly fit in the default theme on 1.5.4... all lengths the same.

As far as moving the password to the end.. my initial idea was to put it on the success page, but that can be overlooked sometimes, and required an additional change to the success page which complicates things again with custom themes and some payments have custom success pages. So I decided to keep the related stuff on the same page. I think as a customer, whether its step 1 or step 2 you know if you want an account.

There are hundreds of combinations of possible opinions.. I can only go with what makes sense for most.

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Post by OC2PS » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:00 pm

Qphoria wrote:As far as moving the password to the end.. my initial idea was to put it on the success page, but that can be overlooked sometimes, and required an additional change to the success page which complicates things again with custom themes and some payments have custom success pages. So I decided to keep the related stuff on the same page. I think as a customer, whether its step 1 or step 2 you know if you want an account.
Qphoria wrote:There are hundreds of combinations of possible opinions.. I can only go with what makes sense for most.
True.

*I believe* it makes sense to have the password fields at the end of the process, when the customers have already put in all the hardwork, and adding password seems like a trivial matter. Then the customers are much more open to the idea.

Check this out, even if just for kicks http://www.uie.com/articles/three_hund_million_button/
Jared M. Spool, Founder of User Interface Engineering wrote:How Changing a Button Increased a Site's Annual Revenues by $300 Million

It's hard to imagine a form that could be simpler: two fields, two buttons, and one link. Yet, it turns out this form was preventing customers from purchasing products from a major e-commerce site, to the tune of $300,000,000 a year. What was even worse: the designers of the site had no clue there was even a problem.

The form was simple. The fields were Email Address and Password. The buttons were Login and Register. The link was Forgot Password. It was the login form for the site. It's a form users encounter all the time. How could they have problems with it?

The problem wasn't as much about the form's layout as it was where the form lived. Users would encounter it after they filled their shopping cart with products they wanted to purchase and pressed the Checkout button. It came before they could actually enter the information to pay for the product.

The team saw the form as enabling repeat customers to purchase faster. First-time purchasers wouldn't mind the extra effort of registering because, after all, they will come back for more and they'll appreciate the expediency in subsequent purchases. Everybody wins, right?

"I'm Not Here To Be In a Relationship"

We conducted usability tests with people who needed to buy products from the site. We asked them to bring their shopping lists and we gave them the money to make the purchases. All they needed to do was complete the purchase.

We were wrong about the first-time shoppers. They did mind registering. They resented having to register when they encountered the page. As one shopper told us, "I'm not here to enter into a relationship. I just want to buy something."

Some first-time shoppers couldn't remember if it was their first time, becoming frustrated as each common email and password combination failed. We were surprised how much they resisted registering.

Without even knowing what was involved in registration, all the users that clicked on the button did so with a sense of despair. Many vocalized how the retailer only wanted their information to pester them with marketing messages they didn't want. Some imagined other nefarious purposes of the obvious attempt to invade privacy. (In reality, the site asked nothing during registration that it didn't need to complete the purchase: name, shipping address, billing address, and payment information.)

Not So Good For Repeat Customers Either

Repeat customers weren't any happier. Except for a very few who remembered their login information, most stumbled on the form. They couldn't remember the email address or password they used. Remembering which email address they registered with was problematic - many had multiple email addresses or had changed them over the years.

When a shopper couldn't remember the email address and password, they'd attempt at guessing what it could be multiple times. These guesses rarely succeeded. Some would eventually ask the site to send the password to their email address, which is a problem if you can't remember which email address you initially registered with.

(Later, we did an analysis of the retailer's database, only to discover 45% of all customers had multiple registrations in the system, some as many as 10. We also analyzed how many people requested passwords, to find out it reached about 160,000 per day. 75% of these people never tried to complete the purchase once requested.)

The form, intended to make shopping easier, turned out to only help a small percentage of the customers who encountered it. (Even many of those customers weren't helped, since it took just as much effort to update any incorrect information, such as changed addresses or new credit cards.) Instead, the form just prevented sales - a lot of sales.

The $300,000,000 Fix

The designers fixed the problem simply. They took away the Register button. In its place, they put a Continue button with a simple message: "You do not need to create an account to make purchases on our site. Simply click Continue to proceed to checkout. To make your future purchases even faster, you can create an account during checkout."

The results: The number of customers purchasing went up by 45%. The extra purchases resulted in an extra $15 million the first month. For the first year, the site saw an additional $300,000,000.

On my answering machine is the message I received from the CEO of the $25 billion retailer, the first week they saw the new sales numbers from the redesigned form. It's a simple message: "Spool! You're the man!" It didn't need to be a complex message. All we did was change a button.

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Post by Qphoria » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:14 pm

Yes.. don't get me wrong.. I was the first to tell daniel 2 years ago to move the account option to the last page and combine the guest and checkout into the same single form. I guess I kinda went against my own advice with ubercheckout. I'll look into it again.

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Post by rph » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:39 am

I've thought about this a bit and for the life of me I can't come up with a way to deal with customers who are already registered but checkout as a guest/new account. It's not an issue if the passwords match but if they don't you now have a customer who's entered all their checkout information for it to fail out on the very last step.

The only solution I can come up with is adding email entry as a step all on its own at the very beginning.

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:00 am

rph wrote:I've thought about this a bit and for the life of me I can't come up with a way to deal with customers who are already registered but checkout as a guest/new account. It's not an issue if the passwords match but if they don't you now have a customer who's entered all their checkout information for it to fail out on the very last step.

The only solution I can come up with is adding email entry as a step all on its own at the very beginning.
Not sure I follow...

As it is in opencart by default.. it just doesn't link the guest order to your account even if the same email is used. That's an inconvenience I suppose. if the password field was on the success page, you could match the guest email as the "Account" email and when they try to save the password, it would just say, "Account already exists". Or am I missing something?

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Post by rph » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:04 am

The issue comes from Register and Guest Checkout being merged together. You have a customer who forgot they previously registered. If they checkout without entering a password to create an account, no problem. It's just a guest checkout. But if they enter a password and it doesn't match the existing account then you've got an issue. If it's at the beginning of the process it's really no more inconvenient than the system now (though password resets have their own problems as the article mentions) but if it's at the end it means the customer wasted a lot of time re-entering the same information and ultimately won't be able to create an account.

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Post by OC2PS » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:29 pm

rph wrote:You have a customer who forgot they previously registered. if they enter a password and it doesn't match the existing account then you've got an issue.
I guess it boils down to how the code handles it.

When going from 1st page to 2nd page, the system already has the email of the customer and can match against database to check if account exists.

If account exists, then:
It should say account exists, please login with your password. If you have forgotten password, use this link...etc (no worse than now)

The notion that existence of account should only be checked after password is entered is flawed from my perspective.

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Post by rph » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:41 pm

OC2PS wrote:When going from 1st page to 2nd page, the system already has the email of the customer and can match against database to check if account exists.
Yes, but they've already re-entered all their address information at that point. That's not a more convenient system.

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:21 pm

I am still not sure I follow.

Here's how I can see it working just off the top of my head without digging too deep.

1. Customer enters address
2. Customer checks out
3. Customer sees Success page with a box:
_____________________________
"Enter password to create account and save time on your next visit"
Password:_____
Confirm:_____
______________________________

4a. If customer doesn't exist:
- Create account using their info
- Link this guest order id to the new customer
4b. If customer does exist:
- Link the guest order id to the customer
- Alert the customer that his account already exists
- Do not save the new password obviously

OR

Check it at the guest step.. if the guest email exists, alert the customer that they have an account and should login instead. That is actually how most sites do it I believe.

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Post by rph » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:57 am

Q, if they checkout as a guest they no longer have any order history and automated account functions like re-order and returns. You're also creating issues for stores that deal with digital products.

You can put the email at the very beginning like I said and point the user toward a password reset but as the article says there's a very high order abandonment rate on password resets.

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Post by Qphoria » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:46 am

rph wrote:Q, if they checkout as a guest they no longer have any order history and automated account functions like re-order and returns.
I don't see why not.
The order process is the same for both. The difference in the db comes down to what customer_id is associated with the order in the order table. If 0 then its guest, otherwise it is mapped to a customer. So by simply updating the customer_id after the order and after account creation, the rest of the history and such should take care of itself. The only adjustment would be the session clearing has to be deferred some how so that you can maintain the order info up until after the success page.
rph wrote: You're also creating issues for stores that deal with digital products.
Your point about digital products is warranted though. So it would have to support both options and comes down to the store owner to determine what type of store he runs. If there are no downloads, I don't see why it couldn't work.

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