Post by CybaGirl » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:55 pm

Hello TheKrotek and thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. I have also brought of you in the past :).

thekrotek wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:23 pm

No, no, no and no. When license expires, you loose access to downloads and this is absolutely normal. Consider this as some kind of subscription. This is YOU, who should worry about creating backups of all downloaded extensions. YOU should consider downloading and saving somewhere the latest version of the extension, when your license close to expire. Please, don't try to put this on someone's shoulders, this is YOUR duty. Most software development companies have exactly the same scheme of licensing and you completely loose access to downloads, when license expires.
Point taken and yes I should have had backups. But this happened a while back so I was able to re-download all my previous purchases under the old system. This was my point. In regards to the license expiring wouldn't it make sense to email the customer and let them know that the license is about to expire and perhaps even offer them a discount on renewal as many other developers do when you buy from their website? That way I could be notified of any potential updates I may have missed before my license expires.
thekrotek wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:23 pm
Again, wrong. 12 months support period is 2 times 6 months support period. You should consider PRICE of the extension, not support period. If one extension costs 50 bucks with 12 months of support and another one costs 20 bucks with 6 months of support, the latter is 10 bucks cheaper with the same support period.
Sorry but your logic in thinking like this may be alright when there is a wide range of extensions to chose from but in my case you are so very wrong. Simply because without naming the developer in question and the extension there was only one choice in regards to this particular extension. So please tell me how I could have chosen another extension that worked out cheaper with your way of thinking and did the same thing? Perhaps this developer needs some competition?

None the less I am just bringing this to the attention of everyone and all the developers I have spoken to so far agree with me and have taken steps to look after their customers and implement changes rather than seeing them as a cash cow and as I said before until this is fixed I will never make such an expensive purchase like this again on such a short support time as it's too expensive to get caught like this. Furthermore and in hindsight if I had known this is how it was going to be I would never have brought it in the first place. So perhaps if this is how things are going to be then customers should be notified of this practice and the terms of sale be mentioned on the actual extension page. Hence why I said previously I am now more careful with my purchases and if that means I don't purchase something because of poor support times being linked to the downloads then so be it. So who are the real losers here? I think you need to think about this? As I am sure I am not the only one who has already been stung like this and again I don't believe I am being unreasonable about this particular incident.Perhaps you can spend $200.00 or more on an extension every six months just to get an update but I can't. Furthermore what about bug fixes that have been found by other customers and not yourself? Do you believe that we should have to pay more money to get the fixed version after the support period is over even though the bug was part of the original purchase? I hope you don't think like this nor do you think this is acceptable?

Thank you.

Kind regards,
Erica

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Post by thekrotek » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:29 pm

CybaGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:55 pm
Sorry but your logic in thinking like this may be alright when there is a wide range of extensions to chose from but in my case you are so very wrong. Simply because without naming the developer in question and the extension there was only one choice in regards to this particular extension. So please tell me how I could have chosen another extension that worked out cheaper with your way of thinking and did the same thing? Perhaps this developer needs some competition?
In this case you have no choice and support period doesn't matter at all. You either buy even with 6 months period or you don't. Period.
CybaGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:55 pm
None the less I am just bringing this to the attention of everyone and all the developers I have spoken to so far agree with me and have taken steps to look after their customers and implement changes rather than seeing them as a cash cow and as I said before until this is fixed I will never make such an expensive purchase like this again on such a short support time as it's too expensive to get caught like this.
And again: this is YOU who need to pay attention, when purchasing software. YOU should ask pre-sales questions, watch demos and do all other stuff customers tend to forget nowadays. What you're trying to do here is blame others in YOUR OWN mistakes you probably made in the past. So let me be clear on this:

- If you purchased an extension and didn't notice it had a 6 months period - not developer's problem.
- If you purchased an extension and forgot to download it before license expired - not developer's problem.
- If you purchased an extension and forgot to ask pre-sales questions, which in the end turned into disappointment - not developer's problem.

I'm asking you one more time: STOP blaming others. When you purchase software, you can only count on good support and timely bug fixing. All the rest is optional and depends strictly on developer. Developers are different, they all set prices on their extensions differently, they all provide support differently, they define support period differently and so on. You absolutely can't demand from all of them to meet your vision of decent support and license management. Sometimes what's decent for you is unacceptable for others.

If you asked me, I'd bluntly said NO to your suggestion to allow downloads, when license expired. No, no and no. And trust me, most developers will say the same. Software development is a business, for god's sake, not a charity contest.

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Post by CybaGirl » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:46 pm

thekrotek wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:29 pm

And again: this is YOU who need to pay attention, when purchasing software. YOU should ask pre-sales questions, watch demos and do all other stuff customers tend to forget nowadays. What you're trying to do here is blame others in YOUR OWN mistakes you probably made in the past. So let me be clear on this:

- If you purchased an extension and didn't notice it had a 6 months period - not developer's problem.
Obvisouly you are missing my point and want to talk down to me which I won't tolerate!

NO I DID NOT MAKE ANY MISTAKE!!!!

Where does it state that if the support period is only six months then you can only download updates for six months?

Obviously you do not comprehend what I am saying! So let me make this a bit clearer for you!

OTHER DEVELOPERS I HAVE SPOKEN TO WHERE NOT AWARE OF THIS!

Is that clear enough for you and stop telling me I need to pay attention when it is you who needs to pay attention as to what I am saying as well as comprehending what I am trying to say!

What is wrong with you?
thekrotek wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:29 pm
- If you purchased an extension and forgot to download it before license expired - not developer's problem.
- If you purchased an extension and forgot to ask pre-sales questions, which in the end turned into disappointment - not developer's problem.
It's obvious to me you only care about your own financial gain and nothing of your clients. So you seem to think it's ok for people to buy software with bugs in it then expect them to pay to have it fixed after the support period is over. As I keep telling you not one developer has denied me a more recent version when the support period is over apart from one so far and I have purchased MANY extensions!

Furthermore I am avid gamer and I have well over two hundred games in my Steam account and guess what? I am still getting bug fixes for these games years after they were purchased. So your theory of having to pay for updates from software developers holds no value and only seems to apply to you.

None the less I am not interested in arguing with someone who only cares about themselves and doesn't comprehend what I am saying. Good luck on your ventures as I am sure you are going to need with an attitude like yours.

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Erica

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Post by OCdevWizard » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:48 pm

thekrotek wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:29 pm
CybaGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:55 pm
Sorry but your logic in thinking like this may be alright when there is a wide range of extensions to chose from but in my case you are so very wrong. Simply because without naming the developer in question and the extension there was only one choice in regards to this particular extension. So please tell me how I could have chosen another extension that worked out cheaper with your way of thinking and did the same thing? Perhaps this developer needs some competition?
In this case you have no choice and support period doesn't matter at all. You either buy even with 6 months period or you don't. Period.
CybaGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:55 pm
None the less I am just bringing this to the attention of everyone and all the developers I have spoken to so far agree with me and have taken steps to look after their customers and implement changes rather than seeing them as a cash cow and as I said before until this is fixed I will never make such an expensive purchase like this again on such a short support time as it's too expensive to get caught like this.
And again: this is YOU who need to pay attention, when purchasing software. YOU should ask pre-sales questions, watch demos and do all other stuff customers tend to forget nowadays. What you're trying to do here is blame others in YOUR OWN mistakes you probably made in the past. So let me be clear on this:

- If you purchased an extension and didn't notice it had a 6 months period - not developer's problem.
- If you purchased an extension and forgot to download it before license expired - not developer's problem.
- If you purchased an extension and forgot to ask pre-sales questions, which in the end turned into disappointment - not developer's problem.

I'm asking you one more time: STOP blaming others. When you purchase software, you can only count on good support and timely bug fixing. All the rest is optional and depends strictly on developer. Developers are different, they all set prices on their extensions differently, they all provide support differently, they define support period differently and so on. You absolutely can't demand from all of them to meet your vision of decent support and license management. Sometimes what's decent for you is unacceptable for others.

If you asked me, I'd bluntly said NO to your suggestion to allow downloads, when license expired. No, no and no. And trust me, most developers will say the same. Software development is a business, for god's sake, not a charity contest.
This is the best speech what I ever seen. Agree.

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Post by thekrotek » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:44 pm

CybaGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:46 pm
It's obvious to me you only care about your own financial gain and nothing of your clients.
It is obvious to me, that you only care about your purse and don't care about any efforts developers spend on their software and that they also have to eat.
CybaGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:46 pm
So you seem to think it's ok for people to buy software with bugs in it then expect them to pay to have it fixed after the support period is over.
Yes, absolutely. If you purchased extension and it has bugs, you report them and wait, when fixed. Usually, they're fixed fast. If you found these bugs close to your license expiration date, reported them, but your license expired before bug fixing release was out, then yes, you either renew the license or have your bugs not fixed. Can't be more normal.
CybaGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:46 pm
As I keep telling you not one developer has denied me a more recent version when the support period is over apart from one so far and I have purchased MANY extensions!
So what's wrong with that? Your license expired, you can't download or request support. That one developer, who offered you new version for free is a hero.
CybaGirl wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:46 pm
Furthermore I am avid gamer and I have well over two hundred games in my Steam account and guess what? I am still getting bug fixes for these games years after they were purchased. So your theory of having to pay for updates from software developers holds no value and only seems to apply to you.
You obviously have ZERO understanding on how licensing works and that there're different licensing schemes, which depend on different things, including programming language, potential number of sales etc. Steam purchases are for life, yes. But you don't own a game, you RENT it. Did you know that? I really hope you do. Also, sales on Steam are HUNDREDS (if not thousands) times more, than sales on OpenCart Marketplace. Everybody plays games, but only few use OpenCart (comparing to total number of gamers in the world).

There're also games for mobile devices, which are mostly on freemium now. This means you can play the game for free (eventually you will hit the paywall, but still will be able to play). But such games are being downloaded by MILLIONS and depend on "special gamers" (they're called "whales"), who use in-app purchases and spend THOUSANDS of dollars. So according to your logic, all OpenCart developers should give away their extensions similar to mobile games and use in-app purchases to profit. At least, this is what comes from your notion about Steam.

I'm sorry, but you don't even understand the difference between the software you purchase. Yet you're trying to convince us in your vision of software licensing. Please, stop this charade. I already told you, that your complaints about not being able to download software, when license expired, is NOT normal for THIS MARKET. The faster you understand it, the less complaints you will have in the future. You don't expect to be bathed, when you go to the movies, so don't expect Steam licensing scheme on OpenCart or any other similar marketplace.

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Post by Johnathan » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:32 pm

Quick question for CybaGirl:

Did you actually lose access to the extension once the license period was up? My understanding is that you should still have access to the download for the version you purchased, but not any later versions that were released after your license was up. That's the way Daniel originally described how it worked, and from what I've heard from my users it sounds like it works that way.

Did the developer disable the extension completely? Or do you really lose access to all downloads after the license is up?

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Post by CybaGirl » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:11 am

Hello Johnathan and thank you for your message.

Finally one of the best developers on Open Cart responds with a constructive comment over that other fool who just wanted to cause an argument because they simply (STILL) cannot understand what I previously wrote and insisted on talking down to me!
Johnathan wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:32 pm
Quick question for CybaGirl:

Did you actually lose access to the extension once the license period was up? My understanding is that you should still have access to the download for the version you purchased, but not any later versions that were released after your license was up. That's the way Daniel originally described how it worked, and from what I've heard from my users it sounds like it works that way.

Did the developer disable the extension completely? Or do you really lose access to all downloads after the license is up?
No I did not loose access to the ability to download the version of extension I had purchased. I can still download this. What has upset me is the cost of the extension and the short support time which I did not know at the time is tied in to the ability to download newer versions. The fact that version 3.x.x.x has been released and I cannot download it has upset me. I mean we are talking about a $200.00 extension that was only purchased in March of this year and not a $20.00 extension.

Also as I mentioned before and something that other rude fool still doesn't get is. That all the developers (YES NOT ONE) but all the developers I have contacted about getting updates outside of the support period have been kind of enough to look after me and email me the later versions and bug fixes. So unlike the greedy forum clown on here! They realise the benefits of keeping their customers happy so that they continue to buy their extensions which in turn keeps them in business, especially when you are dealing with a person that developers Open Cart eCommerce websites and multiple licenses are purchased as new sites are put together. This is another reason why I always choose your extensions first when you have something I need as you have always provided me with the best customer service and looked after me if and when I have had a problem.

I guess I am very disappointed that this other developer doesn't see things the way you and all the other developers I have contacted about this problem do.

Furthermore I was never made aware of these new changes and as you know I have purchase so many extensions on the Open Cart market place over the years. An email to all past and present clients notify them of these changes would have been nice as I could have made a more informed choice about the purchase. For example I could have asked when was version 3.x.x.x going to be released? Or perhaps asked if they could please let me know when version 3.x.x.x will be released and I will buy a license.

Sadly I guess nothing is going to change and lesson learned for me and I shouldn't expect other developers to be like yourself in regards to looking after their clients. So from now on I will ask more questions or simply I will just avoid buying from developers from now on that do not give at least twelve months support unless I have previously dealt with them as I know they will look after me and if that means I don't make expensive purchases on here then so be it. But I have to say who are the real losers when I and others keep our money in our pockets?

Furthermore I would like to add I would rather pay for support (as I have done in the past) and when I have needed it than loose the ability to download new versions of the extensions within a twelve month period.

None the less If you would like to discuss this further Jonathan please feel free to email me.

Thank you for taking the time to respond constructively and have a great day :).

Kind regards,
Erica

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Post by CybaGirl » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:43 am

OpenCart Addons wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 1:55 am
thekrotek wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 1:42 am
An option to either reply or delete stupid reviews would be nice. For now every "nice person" can write anything and you can't even defend yourself.

There're tons of inadequate people out there, you know :-)
I don't agree that developers should have the right to pick and choose which reviews are shown as no developer would keep negative reviews of their product visible to the public.

The ability to leave an official reply to a review should be adequate. It gives the developer an opportunity to address the customer in a formal manner for future customers to see.

Combined with the ability to see all reviews within your seller account panel, you can contact dissatisfied customers in an attempt to resolve any issues they may be experiencing, which gives you the opportunity to convert that negative review into a positive review.


Joel.
Thank goodness common sense prevails!

If a developer is bad and greedy then it is up to them to change their attitude to remain in business and a previous customers review of a bad developer will warn others not to buy from them as it should be.

Thank you for not taking that suggestion seriously Joel!

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Post by Johnathan » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:31 pm

Ah, I see what you mean about the license period. I agree that it should probably be clearer that the license is for "support and updates", since it doesn't state that explicitly. Hopefully Daniel will address this in the future.

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