Post by timstudio » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:32 am

So, what are good theme's to use that have flexibility to make a modern layout and don't look outdated? It is clear why people 'like' Journal. What is the best alternative?

New member

Posts

Joined
Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:51 pm

Post by paulfeakins » Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:32 pm

timstudio wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:32 am
So, what are good theme's to use that have flexibility to make a modern layout and don't look outdated? It is clear why people 'like' Journal. What is the best alternative?
Have a look at:
https://www.opencart.com/index.php?rout ... n_id=36706

And:
https://www.opencart.com/index.php?rout ... n_id=37931

For quick, professional OpenCart support please email info@antropy.co.uk


User avatar
Expert Member
Online

Posts

Joined
Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:01 pm
Location - Reigate, Surrey, United Kingdom

Post by timstudio » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:44 pm

Problem with the theme's mentioned above is that they are quite minimalistic. I sell a graphic orientated items with lots of options. With 800 visitors a day I learned quite quick that most of the remarks from customers are: I didn't see this, I didn't read that. After I completely redesigned my site with USP's on every page on strategic points, explanations on strategic points etc my business tripled. A theme like journal (or alternative) gives you this freedom that is often needed to be competitive is certain markets nowadays. Full control on layout. This can ofcourse be done with extensions, but that is, as mentioned in another thread, a problem of itself.

People scan sites and don't read. So a lot of stuff need to be right in you're face, no excuses missing it.

New member

Posts

Joined
Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:51 pm

Post by Burt65 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:33 am

timstudio wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:44 pm
Problem with the theme's mentioned above is that they are quite minimalistic. I sell a graphic orientated items with lots of options. With 800 visitors a day I learned quite quick that most of the remarks from customers are: I didn't see this, I didn't read that. After I completely redesigned my site with USP's on every page on strategic points, explanations on strategic points etc my business tripled. A theme like journal (or alternative) gives you this freedom that is often needed to be competitive is certain markets nowadays. Full control on layout. This can ofcourse be done with extensions, but that is, as mentioned in another thread, a problem of itself.

People scan sites and don't read. So a lot of stuff need to be right in you're face, no excuses missing it.
I think the problem here is that we have two kind of themes..

The ones that do required a developer to make changes and the ones that are customisable by the user with no knowledge of code required. You also have two kind of customers. The ones that are happy to learn the ropes and don't mind to play with settings and solve issues along the way, and the one that prefer to pay somebody to do the lot for what ever reason they may have..

The two listed above belong to the second group. They are not minimalistic. They are simply designed with no customer setting input in mind. They are fast and allow the developer to maintain the requested relation by the customer of the second group.

You are obviously a person belonging to the first group of customer. You like to be in full control of your site and therefore are looking for a theme that allows you to do so without having to get too deep in either the code or your pockets.. There is nothing wrong with that. So it seems, that we need both type of theme, but I don't think you can really compare the two listed above with Journal as, while doing the exact same job, those themes, are designed to fit two completely different kind of customers.

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by paulfeakins » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:18 pm

Burt65 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:33 am
I think the problem here is that we have two kind of themes..

The ones that do required a developer to make changes and the ones that are customisable by the user with no knowledge of code required.
The problem is not that Journal is incredibly customizable - that's a good thing and it has some great features and looks good. The problem is that the code is an absolute mess so it's incredibly difficult for developers to work with.

For quick, professional OpenCart support please email info@antropy.co.uk


User avatar
Expert Member
Online

Posts

Joined
Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:01 pm
Location - Reigate, Surrey, United Kingdom

Post by Burt65 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:34 pm

paulfeakins wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:18 pm
The problem is that the code is an absolute mess so it's incredibly difficult for developers to work with.
My point. As most customer using Journal don't need a developer to work on their theme, how is that a problem? To you, yes it is a problem, to them, not really..

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by paulfeakins » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:42 pm

Burt65 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:34 pm
My point. As most customer using Journal don't need a developer to work on their theme, how is that a problem? To you, yes it is a problem, to them, not really..
Sometimes a customer wants to do something that cannot be done in the admin or install some extension or change how something works. But because it's so complex, even the best developers will struggle.

For quick, professional OpenCart support please email info@antropy.co.uk


User avatar
Expert Member
Online

Posts

Joined
Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:01 pm
Location - Reigate, Surrey, United Kingdom

Post by Burt65 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:56 pm

paulfeakins wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:42 pm
Burt65 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:34 pm
My point. As most customer using Journal don't need a developer to work on their theme, how is that a problem? To you, yes it is a problem, to them, not really..
Sometimes a customer wants to do something that cannot be done in the admin or install some extension or change how something works. But because it's so complex, even the best developers will struggle.
That to me sound more like a customer that belong to the second group trying to jump in the first group a bit prematurely... You can't blame Journal code for that.. To a customer that belong to the first group, Journal code will look just fine as he wants to learn and that will be probably his learning experience..

Look, I get it. You don't like to work on Journal code and I respect that. But from a customer belonging to the first group, that's completely irrelevant as he/she doesn't need you. I believe that Journal it is designed for that group of people that don't care what so ever what the code looks like, because they are happy to work with it... It could be in Mandarin for what they care...

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by paulfeakins » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:59 pm

Burt65 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:56 pm
Look, I get it. You don't like to work on Journal code and I respect that. But from a customer belonging to the first group, that's completely irrelevant as he/she doesn't need you. I believe that Journal it is designed for that group of people that don't care what so ever what the code looks like, because they are happy to work with it... It could be in Mandarin for what they care...
You don't get it.

Code quality matters, not because it looks pretty but because if your site is built on spaghetti code it will cause you serious problems when you want to make changes.

For quick, professional OpenCart support please email info@antropy.co.uk


User avatar
Expert Member
Online

Posts

Joined
Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:01 pm
Location - Reigate, Surrey, United Kingdom

Post by Burt65 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:12 pm

paulfeakins wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:59 pm
Burt65 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:56 pm
Look, I get it. You don't like to work on Journal code and I respect that. But from a customer belonging to the first group, that's completely irrelevant as he/she doesn't need you. I believe that Journal it is designed for that group of people that don't care what so ever what the code looks like, because they are happy to work with it... It could be in Mandarin for what they care...
You don't get it.

Code quality matters, not because it looks pretty but because if your site is built on spaghetti code it will cause you serious problems when you want to make changes.
Again, customer group one will surely cross that bridge once they get there because they don't care what the code looks like. If they did they would possibly be in the same boat as you are.. No matter how badly something is written or built, if it works, makes you money and it is cheap to run. The entire Chinese economy is built on the same principle and, well I don't need to tell you, where their economy is positioned in the world scale...

Yes, I think Journal is like a Korean/Chinese car. It's cheap, not that pretty once you get to see the quality, but it will last for few years and get you there much cheaper than using a Limo...

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by akhirakhir » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:26 am

paulfeakins wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:18 pm
Burt65 wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:45 am
You asked for a feedback, and I think you have a nice theme, but is there any chance to access the backend to actually see what options are available?
It's CSS-only, so no options are available in the admin other than those built-in to OpenCart.

But because it is simple and well-coded it would be quick and easy for any front-end CSS developer to customize it.
It takes a lot of time and effort to learn how to properly design a website. There are many sites out there where the designers just haven’t learned these principles at all. Bless their hearts.
rentacar hosterpak ctrentacargirlshostel

Newbie

Posts

Joined
Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:14 am

Post by paulfeakins » Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:28 pm

akhirakhir wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:26 am
It takes a lot of time and effort to learn how to properly design a website. There are many sites out there where the designers just haven’t learned these principles at all. Bless their hearts.
rentacar hosterpak ctrentacargirlshostel
Indeed.

For quick, professional OpenCart support please email info@antropy.co.uk


User avatar
Expert Member
Online

Posts

Joined
Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:01 pm
Location - Reigate, Surrey, United Kingdom

Post by paulfeakins » Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:30 pm

Burt65 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:12 pm
Again, customer group one will surely cross that bridge once they get there because they don't care what the code looks like. If they did they would possibly be in the same boat as you are.. No matter how badly something is written or built, if it works, makes you money and it is cheap to run.
I really hope you don't call yourself a developer.

For quick, professional OpenCart support please email info@antropy.co.uk


User avatar
Expert Member
Online

Posts

Joined
Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:01 pm
Location - Reigate, Surrey, United Kingdom

Post by timstudio » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:30 pm

Bussiness owners, designers and developers normally don't mix well :)

You get into an endless struggle to get a compremise between making money, looking good and working properly.

New member

Posts

Joined
Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:51 pm

Post by paulfeakins » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:33 pm

timstudio wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:30 pm
Bussiness owners, designers and developers normally don't mix well :)

You get into an endless struggle to get a compremise between making money, looking good and working properly.
Most accurate comment I've seen here so far!

For quick, professional OpenCart support please email info@antropy.co.uk


User avatar
Expert Member
Online

Posts

Joined
Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:01 pm
Location - Reigate, Surrey, United Kingdom

Post by info@webshop360.dk » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:53 am

paulfeakins wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:33 pm
timstudio wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:30 pm
Bussiness owners, designers and developers normally don't mix well :)

You get into an endless struggle to get a compremise between making money, looking good and working properly.
Most accurate comment I've seen here so far!
I totally agree here also.

But i would love for Opencart to have is a more customizable template framework.
As a frontend developer for Joomla and Wordpress i have come to love http://gantry.org/ both because its easy to implement positions for modules (joomla) and widgets (WP) but also because its so damn easy to rearrange everything and if i need it i can build my own input fields and display them where i want.

Thats super easy for me and even easier for my clients.

The way the standard template works in opencart does not allow for the same flexibility by a long shot and so its easier to just download and install Journal.
Thats allow me to focus on building a great design and my clients feel some freedom as they have more control.

W360 Marketing Service - Opencart specialists in Denmark



Posts

Joined
Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:34 pm


Post by JNeuhoff » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:04 am

The way the standard template works in opencart does not allow for the same flexibility by a long shot and so its easier to just download and install Journal.
Except that Journal3 is so poorly programmed, see e.g. this for more details. The Journal authors don't contribute to the OpenCart project.

MHC Web Design
Override Engine * Integrated VQMod * Unused Images Manager * Instant Option Price Calculator * Number Option * Google Rich Snippets * Google Tag Manager * Export/Import Tool * SpamBot Buster


User avatar
Expert Member

Posts

Joined
Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:38 am


Post by Burt65 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:21 am

paulfeakins wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:30 pm
I really hope you don't call yourself a developer.
Never have! I would be afraid to end up like you! ;)

But what has this got to do with this thread?? Don't you have customers to support??? :laugh:

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by sam097 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:17 pm

Maybe OC could dare I say offer a commercial premium edition with more features that is supported centrally https://couponustaad.com/coupons/nykaa-promo-code/

Newbie

Posts

Joined
Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:07 am


Post by paulfeakins » Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:33 pm

Burt65 wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:21 am
Never have! I would be afraid to end up like you! ;)
True, you wouldn't want to end up actually knowing something ;)

Burt65 wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:21 am
But what has this got to do with this thread??
Um the fact the thread is called "Why are there so many Terrible themes?!" and we're talking about code quality means it helps if you have a basic understanding of software development?

For quick, professional OpenCart support please email info@antropy.co.uk


User avatar
Expert Member
Online

Posts

Joined
Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:01 pm
Location - Reigate, Surrey, United Kingdom
Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests