Post by i2Paq » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:19 pm

OpenCart 2.0 has been released quit a while now and many of us are slowly planning (dreaming of) the move from previous 1.5 versions to 2.0.

The only BIG issue is that there is no useful (if any) working upgrade-script.

Is this on purpose and intentionally done to keep us from using 2.0?

How do "we" think that OC 2.0 will be widely adapted without such a script?

Or am I missing something?

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Post by yodapt » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:43 pm

Maybe if some devs would together assist in the creation of a working migration script, there would be light at the end of the tunnel, From what I see there are several alternative scripts and hundreds or thousands of user scenarios, it's hard for one dev alone to find common ground there.

I am available for such compromise, but alone I can't respond properly, and in fact it would be a great incentive to migrate and test the new OC 2.0.x, more users, easier to debug it.

Anyone else?

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Post by CoverUp » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:04 pm

I have successfully migrated 1.5.x stores to 2.0.1.x and the main drawbacks are:
DB mismatch
Extension compatibility

DB issues can be handled by a common script, but the extension part have virtually infinite possibilities.

We can work in a default-to-default migration, but at the end of the day, users will miss the functionalities of their extensions and themes.

So this work also need that extensions devs update their work.

Anyway, put a new section on github for this, and let's go ahead.

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Post by IP_CAM » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:04 pm

yodapt wrote:Anyone else?
The Majority of 'Contributors' has probably better THINGS to do, than 'commonly' writing a FREE Software to put themselfs OUT OF BUSINESS, because their former v.1.5.x Seller-'Mods' are not yet ready for an OC-2.x Version, actually not yet 'v.final.1.0' ready to 'serve' as a 'decent' test-platform to 'foolproof' test their own Mod's.

Sorry, but your'e out of your Mind, expecting such, at such a time.

And, as I see, the OC v.2 Developers are probably rather busy to get their THING to work. But as long as our BOSS closes 'matters' on github on a daily scale, I somehow 'feel', there are still 'things', waiting to be 'found'...

My 'very personal' opinion. No offense! :laugh: :laugh:

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Post by yodapt » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:20 pm

It woudn't take that much time of a reasonable number of people were involved, but I respect your position :)

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Post by JAY6390 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:26 pm

As Ernie has rightfully said, the issue is extensions/customisations that are going to be holding you back. There's already a script thats free that you can use to update your database, found here
http://www.opencart.com/index.php?route ... n_id=19572
When you update your database, you can then use that database with a clean install of 2.X and add any 2.X modules that are custom to the new store. However, expecting old extensions to work with 2.X is foolish - the same with vQmods. All custom work pretty much needs upgrading due to the changes to the core

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Post by wishmedia » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:56 am

I personally think you're better off rebuilding from the ground up. Although I haven't tried to upgrade the website myself, from my brief glances at 2.x it looks completely different. Like Jay said, this means 90% of all 1.5.x extensions will likely not work on 2.x.

Most extensions are based on VQMod so they will all just "abort" and error out if you try to update the code. I haven't had any issues with my clients being hacked on 1.5.x, (not sure if this is an issue for anyone else) and the extensions are all built for 1.5.x so I don't see much benefit to upgrading an old site yet.

Unless you're building a new site I'd stay stick with 1.5.x for a good 6 months until all the extensions catch up.

I could be wrong but thats just my 2 cents.

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Post by i2Paq » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:20 pm

I understand that Extensions etc. used in your 1.5.x store cannot be used with 2.0 unless you modify them to work with 2.0.

The problem I have is that for a regular guy like me, and my knowledge is more then other more common users of OC, it is almost impossible to upgrade me current db to use with 2.0.

What I find unbelievable is that the current 2.0 download comes with an "upgrade script" that makes people believe that they can upgrade.

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Post by extensadev » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:46 pm

i2Paq wrote: The problem I have is that for a regular guy like me, and my knowledge is more then other more common users of OC, it is almost impossible to upgrade me current db to use with 2.0.
We can only dream for a magical script which will be able to upgrade 1.5 customized installation with custom theme and a lot of extensions to 2.0 with 1 click and to get everything working.
Unfortunately it isn't possible even if 100 top developers work together on such script.
In such cases, if you don't have enough knowledge and experience, it's better to hire a professional developer to do the job for you.
There are free scripts to handle DB transition and everyone can try to do the upgrade by himself but if the extensions are not working or something else goes wrong - you will need some experienced guy to fix it. It's just not possible to automate that.

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Post by pm-netti » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:42 pm

i2Paq wrote: The problem I have is that for a regular guy like me, and my knowledge is more then other more common users of OC, it is almost impossible to upgrade me current db to use with 2.0.
Where the problem is the job? Just would be nice to know .... can I guess? The current trade you have a lot of good ("awesome") extensions that are not available in the version 2.x?

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Post by JAY6390 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:34 am

I think the main thing everyone needs to remember is that the change between 1.5.X and 2.X is not a trivial one. The whole system has been massively changed. Expecting a simple script to upgrade and do everything is living in a fantasy world. If you're not capable of upgrading the store yourself, you need to either pay someone to do it or learn how to do it yourself. When I need a wall building, I don't just not have the wall built because its not simple. I pay someone or learn how to do it myself

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Post by snappyfish » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:03 pm

I completely aggree with I2paq

"What I find unbelievable is that the current 2.0 download comes with an "upgrade script" that makes people believe that they can upgrade."

Why would the "upgrade script" be available if it does NOT do the correct job? or does it?

Love open cart but nowadays just feel ???

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Post by tjsystems » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:19 pm

snappyfish wrote:Love open cart but nowadays just feel ???
Totally agree!

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Post by Qphoria » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:33 pm

So let me shed some light on upgrades... as a self proclaimed expert on the matter.

When dealing with any web platform that has a database, there are always 2 parts to upgrade...
the Filesystem and the Database.

The filesystem is always the easiest. Upload the new files on top of the old files and Bob's your uncle... done and done... mostly. One thing to keep note of with files is that new files will overlay old files, but some old files are no longer needed or have been replaced by a different file in the upgrade. But that leaves that old file there which can get confusing. One example is the "Welcome" module... it was replaced by the more generic "HTML Content" module.. but often the welcome module still sits there and people try to install it and get a bunch of errors.

The database is the trickiest part. A database can be exported to a file, but in that form it is very limited in its ability to be differentiated against. Most database tools for checking and acting on need to be done in place on the database. That is what the current opencart upgrade script does. It does some general purpose comparisons from the sql file that comes with it to your existing database that it looks up from the config.php file. It then attempts to make your database structure match the file. It only changes the table structures and none of the data. This works for 90% of the db changes but there are some changes that are so different that it can't just be handled with sql.

Sometimes data itself can cause issues. One major issue with updates to 2.0.1.1 is the way that modules are saved now. If you leave modules like "latest" installed before the upgrade, it leaves orphaned settings in the database. These orphaned values are no longer altered by the admin edit/save process but they can still override the expected data and cause chaos until they are deleted manually which is why so many people have problems upgrading from older versions to 2.x. These orphaned settings are not covered by the current upgrade script... and the real problem is that 3rd party modules leave n number of possible custom options that could be out there.

The question then becomes, How can we mitigate these extra steps. The issue is that they are too specific, and there has always been things like this hanging over each update. I tried keeping a running log of changes from OpenCart 1.2 through 1.5 and now 2.x and it's hell.. It isn't sustainable without manually keeping a file of steps that has to be generic enough to fail gracefully when those variations are not found. For example, someone who has upgraded from 1.4.x to 1.5.x to 2.0.x will have different files, different tables, different encoding, different data entries than someone who only went from 2.0.0.1 to 2.0.1.1. So we need a one-size-fits-all approach to upgrade. But when coding, coders do not want to add specific hard coded options. It gets messy and again unsustainable. So we try to find these more generic programmatic approaches to auto-determine and correct the state.

I used to maintain the upgrade script for 1.5.x and I would add these extra steps. But I couldn't keep up with them all and it was a major pain trying to keep up with the changes in the cart. So instead I've focus my energy on steps to follow to do the upgrades. They are tedious and have to be followed exactly and they work, but there are gotchas and many people have trouble following all steps which leads to the pages of questions on my "Beta 14x to 15x upgrade" thread. But I've mastered the process and I've successfully upgraded over 300 shops from as far back as OpenCart v1.1 all the way through 2.0.1.1. It can be done, but it isn't easy to have a script handle it unless you tailor the script exactly for the build and all the possible variations of upgrade state.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it really requires a dedicated person to handle just that, and it is still difficult to get it all perfect across all permutations and especially across all servers. Web hosts all seem to have their own opinion on how to setup their servers and almost of all of them are clueless. This leads to shortened server execution timeouts on large databases, causing the upgrade script to timeout and now you are left with some frankenstein monster of a database. A lot of this comes down to experience and being able to get it back on course. All in all there are a lot of factors that can affect the upgrade process and none of it is easy.

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Post by pm-netti » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:34 pm

Qphoria wrote: The database is the trickiest part. A database can be exported to a file, but in that form it is very limited in its ability to be differentiated against. Most database tools for checking and acting on need to be done in place on the database. That is what the current opencart upgrade script does. It does some general purpose comparisons from the sql file that comes with it to your existing database that it looks up from the config.php file.
Referring to the much used by the update, that is:
http://www.opencart.com/index.php?route ... n_id=19572
At that script I have added vqMod feature.

I have developed the add-on, which may apply checked tables from the trade master database:
http://www.opencart.com/index.php?route ... n_id=20918
The program is uploaded to trade config.php file.

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Post by pm-netti » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:29 pm

syntaxerror wrote:Hello Pekka,

Sorry, but it's kind of hard to understand the short writings in your Finnish-English. Both here on the site/forum, and in your readme.

What exactly is your script doing, and what are the steps required?

Does it really download latest OpenCart file system, and overwrite the one from 1.5, or does it just update/convert the database? If the latest, you really should update the instructions... and if A method is supposed to update the file system too, it doesn't work very well.
Thansk your comments.
Instructions are not exactly the best, sorry my english ;)
Everyone understand that I have made this program a large job.
It would be nice if there was a volunteer who would like to do less work: write clear English instructions.

Is that the point B more difficult to understand?
It is a relocation of trade to another directory and images "automatic" copying to the path where the new store is located.

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Post by pm-netti » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:41 am

syntaxerror wrote:Yes, I fully understand the English issue. It's harder for the Finnish (Uralic) speaking people to learn English, than it's for the Indo-European - Germanic speaking. I have it the other way around, slowly trying to learn Finnish. ;)

I probably could help out with the docs, but first I have to understand the converter. What it's meant to do, as it didn't do what I expected when I tested it after uploading it to the root of a 1.5 site (it's what the docs says I should). Think I have to dig into the code to try to figure out of this.

Both option A and B is equally unclear. And for your other tool, the Webmaster thing I really have no idea about what it is.
Code is there:
https://github.com/pekka2/OC-Converter-to-Upgrade-2-0

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Post by dswtpl » Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:52 pm

dswtpl wrote:Can I upgrade version 1.5.6.4 to 2.0x ? I want to use latest version in my shop.

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Post by pm-netti » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:12 pm

syntaxerror wrote: Also I would recommend renaming it to "OpenCart 1.x to 2.x migration tool" or something like that.
Would that name almost too much ... not suitable to these:

http://forum.opencart.com/viewforum.php?f=2&start=125

Name Suggestions:
OpenCart migration tool
OpenCart Converter tool

Ps. This upgrade also version 2.0.0.0 to version 2.0.1.1.
So this is vqMod.
Someone skilled can do this a add-on (to it suitable price), which handles all the customer's unique modules and convert those the database structure to fit the version 2.0.1.x
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Post by pm-netti » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:34 am

syntaxerror wrote: So what about: OpenCart Migration & Upgrade Tool - that would cover the most used namings for the tasks.
This could be a good name.
However, the version 2.0.0.0 is required to use a "migration", when in the database was introduced in table `module` in version 2.0.1.0.
syntaxerror wrote: For the rest, docs and some bugs I've discovered I will use GitHub and your mail for my input on it.
Thanks. All tips will be received.

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