Post by DragonJ » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:38 am

There's an extension on the OC Extension Marketplace and it potentially can be the solution I need, however I don't want to buy it ($50) and then find out that it won't fit my needs. The developer does have a "demo" site, however it is limited and when I try to do something in the admin I get the error saying I don't have permission to do that. Their extension is protected by ioncube so I've asked them to make me a trial ioncube license that will expire by a certain date and they said this is outside the scope of what they do for customers. I've been using ioncube for the past year and know with certainty that it takes literally 30 seconds to make a demo license file so I really don't know why they *wouldn't* do this for potential customers!

So my question is: If I buy this extension and it doesn't work, can I "return" it for a refund?

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Post by cwswebdesign » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:05 am

DragonJ wrote:There's an extension on the OC Extension Marketplace and it potentially can be the solution I need, however I don't want to buy it ($50) and then find out that it won't fit my needs. The developer does have a "demo" site, however it is limited and when I try to do something in the admin I get the error saying I don't have permission to do that. Their extension is protected by ioncube so I've asked them to make me a trial ioncube license that will expire by a certain date and they said this is outside the scope of what they do for customers. I've been using ioncube for the past year and know with certainty that it takes literally 30 seconds to make a demo license file so I really don't know why they *wouldn't* do this for potential customers!

So my question is: If I buy this extension and it doesn't work, can I "return" it for a refund?
I think this is mostly up to the individual developer. I'd suggest contacting them before you purchase.

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Post by DragonJ » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:18 am

I've tried that and didn't get an answer out of them. I've searched these forums and it seems like this topic has never been brought up because I can't find anything about it. That's why I decided to start a new thread and hopefully this will provide answers for others.

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Post by cwswebdesign » Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:13 am

DragonJ wrote:I've tried that and didn't get an answer out of them. I've searched these forums and it seems like this topic has never been brought up because I can't find anything about it. That's why I decided to start a new thread and hopefully this will provide answers for others.
Which extension are you looking at?

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Post by DragonJ » Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:39 am


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Post by Johnathan » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:48 am

Generally you can only request a refund when an extension does not do what it says on a standard installation. Beyond that, if it's due to a conflict with a modification you've made, or with another extension, it is up to the developer's discretion to issue a refund.

There have been instances where the OpenCart team grants a refund without consulting the developer (which developers are generally unhappy about) but these cases seem to be less often these days. As such, if the developer is not willing to grant a refund, and the extension does what it says and is not buggy on a standard OpenCart installation, then your purchase would probably not quality for a refund.

I highly recommend you consult the developer before purchasing -- it sounds like they are not willing to give you a demo or refund, so I'd probably recommend against purchasing it. Try searching for a different extension that will work for you, or if you can't find anything, look into hiring someone to create the proper modification for you. Your other option is to just bite the bullet and hope the extension works for you, but it'd be up to you whether that chance is worth the extension cost.

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Post by DragonJ » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:16 am

In a nutshell, I need an alternative to Fresh Store Builder. I am beyond fed up with trying to deal with the people who run it and this extension looked like the only option.

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Post by Dhaupin » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:06 am

Those guys should be allowing a proper demo, even if it means on a separate demo store so they can revert back to a default env once youre done trying out the extension. This is how it seems most logical.

Def consult the developer for a refund first, often they are willing to fix/add stuff to make it work. An issue with refunds on developer side though is the fact that there is no "refund" button in the extension manager and OC marketplace takes 30%. So if a customer asks a dev for a refund, and the dev says ok, its an extra 30% loss.

On a $50 mod it means that the dev earned $35 from the sale. When refunding, the dev must give back the $35 then "cover" that 30% that went to OC. The dev must fork out $15 out of pocket. This is why most arent willing to do it and also why its better to go through OC after all your options are extinguished.

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Post by DragonJ » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:01 am

They told me not to buy their product and go shop somewhere else. I guess that means I won't be buying it.

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Post by Johnathan » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:39 pm

Dhaupin, the full refund amount is processed, so no commission fee is charged to the developer. Otherwise the customer would only be getting a 70% refund, since Daniel would be keeping 30% of their payment.

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Post by zaqueon » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:15 am

Johnathan

It is not true. The policy does not put the developer.

Two of my clients have returned the money. In the two was returned because my extension did not have something I'd never included in the extension.
On the support chat I said I had no reason to include this functionality. Still Opencart returned his money.

So I say that is not true.

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Post by Johnathan » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:56 am

As I mentioned, those cases seem to be less often these days -- but they do still happen. It's an unfortunate reality of dealing with customers, unfortunately. People don't always seem to be able to read extension descriptions properly, for some reason. :)

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Post by uksitebuilder » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:25 pm

has commission gone up from 20% to 30% now ?

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Post by OSWorX » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:51 pm

DragonJ wrote:There's an extension on the OC Extension Marketplace ... Their extension is protected by ioncube
Offering GPL-Scripts encoded (ioncobe or an other system) violates clearly the GPL-License!

Basically every developer can try to 'protect' his script.

But when a script is based on another script or is using corefunction(s) of the script it belongs is licensed under a OpenSource License (which GPL is), encrypting such scripts is violating the license.
If a customer wants to have the source code, the developer has to handout the uncrypted scripts - in a human readable format.

On the other hand, as long as a script is encrypted, you never will know what the script is doing really in the background!
Maybe it sends sensitive data - your customer data - to the developer?
Or any payment data?
You never will know unless you inspect the whole server and mail traffic.

This potential risk would be for me the main backdraft NOT to buy this extension.
Beside the fact that it is encrypted.

What I cannot understand that such an extension is accepted in the OC-Store!
But .. money does not stinks as it seems.

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Post by Johnathan » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:14 pm

uksitebuilder wrote:has commission gone up from 20% to 30% now ?
The commission rate was raised a while back for all new developers. Those that signed up before the change are currently grandfathered in, although Daniel has made no promises regarding commission rates in the future.

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Post by uksitebuilder » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:17 am

Thanks Jonathan, I was unaware of that change.

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Post by Dhaupin » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:14 pm

uksitebuilder wrote:has commission gone up from 20% to 30% now ?
I was wondering about this too -- my friend has a 20% commission account, when i activated mine a few weeks ago it said 30%.

Edit didn't see the post below :) 30% is still ok i guess compared to envato and stuff.

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Post by DragonJ » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:49 am

OSWorX wrote:
DragonJ wrote:There's an extension on the OC Extension Marketplace ... Their extension is protected by ioncube
Offering GPL-Scripts encoded (ioncobe or an other system) violates clearly the GPL-License!

What I cannot understand that such an extension is accepted in the OC-Store!
So does this need to be reported to someone?

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Post by Dhaupin » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:33 pm

DragonJ wrote:
OSWorX wrote:
DragonJ wrote:There's an extension on the OC Extension Marketplace ... Their extension is protected by ioncube
Offering GPL-Scripts encoded (ioncobe or an other system) violates clearly the GPL-License!

What I cannot understand that such an extension is accepted in the OC-Store!
So does this need to be reported to someone?
Does an OC extension have to be GPL? And honestly, the GPL is a treaty, it really holds no grounds as a "contract" nor is it regulated by any sort of "software cops". If you want "software cops" plan on hiring lawyers out of pocket which will cost alot. Basically you can do whatever you like and all you're gonna get is a slap on the wrist and removed from official repositories....not that i recommend that.

I dont blame the dev for using Ioncube though, there is so much extension theft/sharing and there is little else devs can do to protect their assets. Example: a certain forum shares pay mods on the regular - there is probably at least a 1% conversion rate lost on some of the popular OC mods because of it. Thats just from 1 forum.

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Post by OSWorX » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:26 am

Dhaupin wrote:Does an OC extension have to be GPL?
Yes - and again, i bit slower .. - if the script is based on someones work (in this case OpenCart) which has the GPL as license, this particular script has to choose again GPL or less!
Simply!
Dhaupin wrote:And honestly, the GPL is a treaty ..
Maybe, but that is Daniels decision - not ours.
Dhaupin wrote:I dont blame the dev for using Ioncube though, there is so much extension theft/sharing and there is little else devs can do to protect their assets. Example: a certain forum shares pay mods on the regular - there is probably at least a 1% conversion rate lost on some of the popular OC mods because of it. Thats just from 1 forum.
AS written, I do - because of some reasons.
And if a dev has to use such methods, he is doing the wrong business (model).

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