Post by pedro1993 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:36 am

I know this has probably been brought up before,

But I am finding my inbox full of complaints from customers because my extensions "don't work" when they buy it.

I will admit, on some of my extensions I do say I will make sure that the extension works on their store and around there templates (but now I wish I hadn't)

It costs me a lot of time now to re-write extensions just so it works with other templates/extensions and I find my self doing it a lot more often. I know it's nobodies fault either.

What do you guys do in these cases? Do you add an extra charge, do you do it for free, or do you just up the price of the extension/theme so it covers these implications?

Also, as an OC developer, are we held liable if our extension/template doesn't work with another template/extension? I have had refunds automatically issued because of this, and I find it a little unfair.

What are your thoughts?

Peter

For professional OpenCart, HTML/CSS & PHP/MySQL support feel free to PM me :)
Click here for my extentions
Did I help you? Donate here to show support
Follow me on Twitter!
Catch me on Facebook!
Watch YouTube OpenCart Tutorials and Extension Demos

Image


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:31 am
Location - Glasgow, Scotland

Post by butte » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:43 am

The best upshot is probably to give it one's very best shot, provide compatibility lists as to versions of OC and perhaps as to mixes of extensions, with caveats that testing is not exhaustive and other usage contexts will not necessarily be supported for want of control over servers or shops, and provide pricing that is neither what the market will bear nor grossly inadequate to cover your before and after time. Can't win, somebody will find a way to break a tank or a locomotive, let alone something that is touchy.

The same essential problem also comes up in fixing or completely resurrecting something that involves somebody else's installation including extensions that may not all get along together in the first place.

Whatever we write ourselves can be tested on only so many versions and releases before variant installations of those arise in users' own instances. The entirety is server-sensitive, no fault of OC at all, no fault of Linux or php or mysql or whatever at all, there are just recombinants out there even of what seemed on the shelf to be genetically even the same software before somebody installed it and went into the configuration files, and set, oh, oh, host policy-driven preferences. Add to that extensions and themes, variants of vqmod or other programs for that sort of thing, and there are still more variables. Well, it worked when it left here, where did it wind up?

Flip it around, after OC or anything else complicated has been outsider-hacked (there via vulnerabiities other than OC itself, such as via a blog's whereami.cgi in the same account or same domain), or owner-bungled (yup, the instructions weren't kidding), or subjected to unknown forces (server upgrades and migrations are all too often discovered only in tracking down why yesterday was good and today the bottom fell out), then all of the creatures are out of the zoo. Whatever we didn't write ourselves is never severely tested in anything we set up ourselves in our right minds. Well, it wound up where I don't want its fleas back in the house.

Major commercial software (being compiled C++, Java, or whatnot anyway) is rarely subjected to the sorts of testing and manipulation that OC (being uncompiled and open source) sustains fairly, even quite admirably. The Big Boys unleash their own havoc, including the virtually extraterrestrial ME and XP spinoffs of 98 and NT or various Apple script-blind oddities other long prior mini and mainframe miracles. Remember "Y2K" in Cobol? Did the Big Boys spend money on modern softare, or instead on internal stickums on the festers? The "testing" for "K2K" was about as sensible as seeing how far an aircraft will fly at sea where there is nowhere and no way to refuel. For OC and themes and extensions we have unusual testing, largely for real, and often whether combinations of those may work comes down to yes, probably, maybe, sometimes, or no, even and no for all possible settings considered together at once, depending upon who does what with them on known or unknown servers.

If it is bullet proof it is already somewere inside cement, underwater, or hidden in somebody's pizza.

Guru Member

Posts

Joined
Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:58 am

Post by pedro1993 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:14 am

Where do you find the time for these extremely long answers butte :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

For professional OpenCart, HTML/CSS & PHP/MySQL support feel free to PM me :)
Click here for my extentions
Did I help you? Donate here to show support
Follow me on Twitter!
Catch me on Facebook!
Watch YouTube OpenCart Tutorials and Extension Demos

Image


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:31 am
Location - Glasgow, Scotland

Post by butte » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:50 am

Short: Whatever you offer will inevitably be used in unpredictable and unknown overall installatons.

Short: You will instantly realize what that entails. Most authors will, too.

However, many authors and probably most consumers of your and their work will have no idea why you and they can't just "make it work" in any event of whatsoever nature, and will expect you and them to do miracles, for what you originally charged them. Those have now an overall succinct hint of how unreasonable it is for them to expect either to encounter no problems or to have the performance of miracles.

Guru Member

Posts

Joined
Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:58 am

Post by MarketInSG » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:28 am

pedro1993 wrote:Where do you find the time for these extremely long answers butte :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
he loves poems...honestly, I don't really read his posts...


Anyway, for extensions, I will up the price for those extensions that may be affected by the themes they are using. For those that are theme independent, I will keep the price the usual. So should users have issue with integrating with themes, I usually provide free support (ONCE ONLY), and if they come back after they changed another template or screwed it up again, I will charge them for it.

Well, OpenCart refunds depending on situation. I have their support guys contact me most of the times for complaints on refunds and they will see how it goes. For fraud purchases, they will just refund without notifying you (till you get the paypal refund email from them).


User avatar
Guru Member

Posts

Joined
Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:53 am
Location - Singapore

Post by 3antz » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:49 pm

Or perhaps provide pointers on how to make the plugin to be compatible with the theme or vice versa?

Most of the time, theme/plugin developers do not provide enough info on their documentation and it is hard for non techies (myself included) to do it ourselves. Actually, I prefer to do make the modifications myself given a chance. At least I'll know where to look for if there was an issue.

I guess the situation will change when 2.0 gets rolled out together with the new layout. It is pretty standard looking and seems easily customizable.

Active Member

Posts

Joined
Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:52 pm

Post by JFOC » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:24 pm

butte wrote:The best upshot is probably to give it one's very best shot, provide compatibility lists as to versions of OC and perhaps as to mixes of extensions, with caveats that testing is ...........
i love this answer :laugh:

I am agree by providing compatibility lists so your customer would understand the condition which version will work/not with your extensions/themes

New member

Posts

Joined
Tue May 29, 2012 12:48 pm


Post by butte » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:59 pm

Granted, forum posts that "provide pointers on how" essentially say try this or ask author, and where an author didn't say or follow up with what might (or not) have been enough, the user can be stuck. Themes that venture out of the theme/ tree into model/ and controller/ invite more problems than occur when they don't do so. Some extensions go beyond the call of duty. Users told out front whether that is happening would be aware to think twice, accordingly, about using such themes or extensions. Many users (hundreds) want to change OC (and with it themes or extensions which are written to expect OC to be behaving in certain ways) so as to add or remove functions of the software itself, without realizing where that might go.

Guru Member

Posts

Joined
Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:58 am

Post by Johnathan » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:09 am

The best way to prevent his is to modify as little of the core as possible. I always try and make my extensions avoid modifications if I can get around it, or make the changes as small as possible. Often this takes a couple of iterations of an extension before you get an elegant way to work it.

If there is an extension conflict, I usually take a quick look (5 minutes or so) to determine whether the issue is being caused by the other extension, and if I can fix it, I do so. Otherwise I tell the customer that the issue is an extension conflict, which is not covered under free support according the license agreement.

If I have the time, I'll often go above-and-beyond and fix the issue for them if I know the solution. Otherwise, I refer them to the other extension developer (who may fix it for them) or the "Commercial Support" forum to seek paid support for their issues.

Image
Image Image Image Image


User avatar
Global Moderator

Posts

Joined
Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:08 am


Post by butte » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:03 am

Same idea holds for themes. Stay in the themes/ tree rather than going into model/ and controller/. Paint the Bentley, not rework its drivetrain.

Guru Member

Posts

Joined
Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:58 am

Post by lasa » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:51 am

I'm on the other end... I'm a user of the great stuff you guys build... Pedro has helped me a couple of time as well.
I for one wouldn't expect every extension to work on all themes...theme builders are walking a thin line between creativity, alter-ability and update-ability and some disregard the whole enchilada. If the extension were to say guaranteed to work on the default theme x.xx.x to x.xx.x, additional cost for theme specific modifications. I'd know that I "might" need modifications on my particular heavily altered theme and it will be at an added cost. If you state that this vqmod could conflict with other modes that modify the header.tpl then we've been forewarned as well.
I don't see a problem stating exactly what you will do as part of the sale.
The extension may cost $10.00 but your time doesn't.
Lasa2

Active Member

Posts

Joined
Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:11 am
Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 3 guests