Open Cart critique

Hello everyone,
so far I have tried every piece of open source carts : prestashop, magento, oscommerce, zen-cart, you name it I've tried them all (like most of the people on this forum). Also i tried many commercial ones just for fun : Interspire cart (Bigcommerce), CubeCart, Volusion, ... .
So whats the thing? I like Open Source projects no matter if it is an application, design, or something else. I use to be a programmer when younger (drop that completely ) and I spend hunderds of hours looking at the code of apache, sendmail etc. I participated alot too because I believed (and still do) in open source. I still believe it was well spent time. Im telling you all this because in further text I will have a critique on Open Cart not because I hate it, but because I really like the code which is pretty much well organized , not perfect but good. I mean, when you live trough some other BIG open source projects this one looks amazing.
Anyhow, Open Cart looks promising but that means nothing. First thing I do not like in Open Cart is that I have to pay for something that suppose to be included in a software. Example of that is "Product comparing" , rotators etc. I know, some programmers who made those modules will jump on this one, but open source is about progress and everything that comes with it. It all comes down to this : if you want to make money then you should make modules for commercial carts. Period.
What I like about Open Cart is that I actually see what features will be included in next release. This clearly proves me that someone actually have a real roadmap. Good work Open Cart.
Second thing is templates. There are many types of software like : fast software, slow, simplistic, complicated, nice looking, ugly, .... . first impression is the key if we have a software that has to deal and to be seen by many. Cart software is like a girl. You allways pick the one that you personally like. You never pick a girl you don't like thinking : I will get her few implants there, make her do lips, front and behind, ... lol you simply choose a girl that has all that and live with it. Same thing is with shopping carts. Make outstanding default template that 90% will like and never look back. The best cart software (by many) is Interspire cart. Take a look :

Looks nice right. Dont get me wrong, default Open Cart is decent but unfortunately not enough. It looks better than Presta or Magento, thats for sure but if you want something incredible you have to do much better. There is a simple rule of success : if you want to be the best you have to beat the best. The look of shopping cart is as important as the code.
Other things are features. Its not about the amount of it but about quality and usability. Some features are a must. For example : get one product and have another for free (or have a discount on it). If you dont know exactly what features your software must have all you have to do is open your competitions page (commercial competitions page like Interspire) and copy the idea (with improvements). And that's the beauty of open source. Commercial companies simply do not have resources (ie. money) and time to spend it on features that may or may not be needed. All of their modules are made to make money so their own web page is a great resource of what one cart must have.
Also, one page checkout is great option and it makes money. I do not see that feature in Open Cart. Searching is another option because people actually have to find a product before a purchase. Advanced search must come with few features not only one or two like in Open Cart but with options that include : brand name, price range, if it is featured, with free shipping, if it is downloadable etc. Open Cart doesnt have that either. Also search tips near advanced search button is a nice addition. Having separate page explaining how to actually find exactly what you are looking for is always a good idea.
Also, some things could be implemented as default. In open cart, in upper right corner you have : Special offers, Bookmark, Contact and Sitemap. There is exactly 1 that should be there : and the winner is Contact. Bookmark is sitting there with no purpose and sitemap is something 99% people never click on. Special offer page must be more agressive not "hidden". Sure it is visible but in that section a customer looks for a Help not special offers. What I want as a customer in that area is to have links to something useful like : Order status, gift and other certificates (coupons in general), About us, return policy, shipping policy, reliability section (wich will assure my customer that buying on my shop is safe like walking), Help, Faq, ... . Naturally Open Cart has that but located in separate block which is not a good idea because those things should be visible right away and not taking much valuable space. I have a proof of that. If you ask average user where he/she expect to have Help option in a application he/she will say : up corner to the right. It is that simple. Help is there as all should all necessary info. In Open Cart you actually have to scroll down and look to the left.
From what I saw, Open Cart is fast, have clean code, but lacks in design and few crucial features. So far, the best OS cart on the market. Some will say : what about Magento? What about it? It is only matter of time when their team will have to rewrite the whole code and Im not even sure thats possible. In Magento, if you want to do something right you have to hire someone who really knows the platform. Looking around and testing is more or less interesting but for serious shop you have to spend lot of money and time. If I have to choose, I would rather buy Interspire or Volusion than to install Magento.
Bottom line,
Open Cart suffers from the same problems as other OS carts (some links are displaced or missing, or total luck of certain features) but I personally believe it is only temporary. If Open cart team decide to implement and improve existing features they would be good to go and even more. So far Open cart has serious advantage comparing to other OS carts and most of the commercial ones. All they have to do is to beat the best.
As a customer I want from a cart software to : load fast (Open Cart is fast enough), looking professional (very important), have everything on a silver platter, fast search, fast checkout (sometimes I don't even want to log in to my account) and a nice customer service at the end of the line.

A very well detailed and critiqued piece (tho not well spaced and paragraphed ). I especially love the analogy of the cart to a girl. That actually sums it up quite nicely. (/me waits for the chauvinist comments)

You have some good points and yes Interspire is a very nice cart but of course has over 10 years in the game and a solid salary paid system. But I agree.. there is lots of work to be done.. we are barely a 2 year old cart in this rendition of it and we are coming up as fast as possible. Just takes some time and experience on what to do and not to do so we are working through it.

(1) From a non-programmer user standpoint, I have a different opinion of paying for mods. Perhaps the programmers "shouldn't" charge for them, but I don't mind paying for them at all. They're so inexpensive, and having been in the same boat you have (tried everything, free and commercial, before deciding on OC), I see no reason why the folks who took a lot of their personal time to save me days of fumbling around fruitlessly shouldn't be paid for their efforts.

For that matter, from everything I've seen out there, Daniel could easily charge for OC, and it would be worth it. You know the crap that some companies charge a few hundred dollars for, and it can't touch OC in many ways.

Open source doesn't have to be a "movement". I know you're not alone in believing it's a cause, but frankly, I don't care. I just want good software that I can easily modify, and if it comes free, that's gravy.

(2) The default Interspire cart template really is sweet, I agree. But it's definitely a matter of taste. I like OC over almost everything out there. I'm not a fan of the tabs, but they were easy to remove.

The reason the sitemap is in the upper left corner has virtually nothing to do with the customer, and everything to do with SEO. I don't use any of those links myself, but I know why they're there, and it was a brilliant placement, IMO.

(3) Options are a weak point in OC, IMO. There are many things that I think should have been coded as options in the admin, instead of making us mod our templates.

(4) Maybe one page checkout is coming, but I'll never use it, and it's a fallacy that it "makes money".

I've seen exactly one one-page checkout that I thought was a good design. Generally all it does is make for a very looooong page, and confuses the customer at the bottom, because they need to see a confirmation page BEFORE they commit. I'm speaking from a shopper's POV. I have never left a website that had something I wanted because I had to go to 2 pages, or 3, or lost the connection before I was finished. Other things are way more important than one-page checkout...like not making me create an account just to buy your stuff.

(5) The search function definitely needs work in OC, I agree (but, as usual, Daniel is working on that). But having a separate page explaining how to find what you're looking for...? People are more likely to click on your sitemap than on that. No one's ever going to spend the time reading something like that.

I'm not saying all this to be critical of *you* - it's more like, I'm tired of programmers who code from a programmer's POV instead of from a shopper's.

I like your observation about the placement of the help feature, and you're right: I, too, instinctively look up to the right for contact, customer service, or other help type fuctions.

Thank you Qphoria and sorry for my English (not my native language ) .

You have some good points and yes Interspire is a very nice cart but of course has over 10 years in the game and a solid salary paid system.

Interspire team will never have what you have right now. They are limited with the amount of money and thus with amount of employees, and OC is limited with time. On a long run OC is a winner, hands down. Someone spent a lot of time developing Open Cart, and one had to be a fool not to respect that. Over the years I saw many good projects to fall down because the team lost the perspective. Small things counts as much as big ones. Small things could be the ones I mentioned about Help, Faq and their placement, and the Big ones are those like One page checkout. CS cart and Interspire have similar checkout model so I guess this is the best way to go. http://www.cs-cart.com/checkout.html Knowing Interspire, they didnt do it for fun but because its effective. Also, searching capabilities are very important. Clicking on a Category should give me another option to browse withing a price range. If I have 100 cameras, I want to exclude those above 200$ simply because I do not have money to buy expensive ones.
Interspire has that :
0$-99$
100&-199&
200&-300& etc.
Nice feature, and you guessed it right, they didn't implement it for fun.

we are barely a 2 year old cart in this rendition of it and we are coming up as fast as possible. Just takes some time and experience on what to do and not to do so we are working through it.

No, you are doing just fine all you have to do is to implement things that customers wants not what store owner think he wants. As a customer I want fast search, fast checkout and store owner wants more options in admin area. Both are demanding but customer comes first. I know its easier to say but professional carts do have all those features already installed when you download it.
In my opinion there are exactly two kinds of modules : must have modules, and optional modules. Advanced Search is a must, but its not about just having a link to it, you actually have to have advanced options in it. Searching and browsing are the most important things for a customer.
The oldest trick in market is this : buy 4 of those and you get a great discount on this one, but if you buy 5 of those you get another product for free. This one is older than you, me and everyone in this forum together. That makes it a perfect candidate for preinstalled module.
I hope I wasn't too much boring demanding the same things but they are simply too important and Open Cart doesn't have it.
Take care

Looks nice right. Dont get me wrong, default Open Cart is decent but unfortunately not enough. It looks better than Presta or Magento, thats for sure but if you want something incredible you have to do much better. There is a simple rule of success : if you want to be the best you have to beat the best. The look of shopping cart is as important as the code.

Thank you for your feedback.

About the look & feel of an e-commerce site: These can be vastly different depending on the theme and CSS, see for example attached screenshots (all based on Opencart, but looking quite differently):
Opencart is one one the shopping carts which can be easily styled to a customer's needs, more so than any of the other carts I haved tried in the past, thank's to Opencart's clear MVC design.

Karen wrote:(1) From a non-programmer user standpoint, I have a different opinion of paying for mods. Perhaps the programmers "shouldn't" charge for them, but I don't mind paying for them at all. They're so inexpensive, and having been in the same boat you have (tried everything, free and commercial, before deciding on OC), I see no reason why the folks who took a lot of their personal time to save me days of fumbling around fruitlessly shouldn't be paid for their efforts.

I see no reason why the folks who took a lot of their personal time to save me days of fumbling around fruitlessly shouldn't be paid for their efforts.

Karen,
I know you don't mind paying for mods you need but if you need to buy it can be counterproductive in open source world. Here is why: lets say someone decided to develop real Advanced Search option and decided to charge 100$ for it. You as a store owner will pay for it and you will not regret it, but development of that mode is strictly bound to the owner of the code. After a year or so, you will need another option in that module and if the owner is not willing to implement it you will be stuck at the same place before the module was created. Open Cart is an open source project and open source means progress. About 10 years ago there was a bug in Sendmail and it was fixed within 48 hours. In closed software you do not have that kind of speed because speed is determined by the amount of people responsible to handle those kind of problems. I know that MS had that bug for months and it was a serious one. Thats the downside of commercial software. Being a open source programmer doesnt mean you are not payed for your work, but it is discussion for some other topic.

For that matter, from everything I've seen out there, Daniel could easily charge for OC, and it would be worth it. You know the crap that some companies charge a few hundred dollars for, and it can't touch OC in many ways.

You are 100% right. This piece of software is much better than most commercial ones I saw. We cant thank him enough for making this software an open source one.

Open source doesn't have to be a "movement". I know you're not alone in believing it's a cause, but frankly, I don't care. I just want good software that I can easily modify, and if it comes free, that's gravy.

Many leading software's are open sourced and they are the best only because they are open sourced.

(2) The default Interspire cart template really is sweet, I agree. But it's definitely a matter of taste. I like OC over almost everything out there. I'm not a fan of the tabs, but they were easy to remove.

The reason the sitemap is in the upper left corner has virtually nothing to do with the customer, and everything to do with SEO. I don't use any of those links myself, but I know why they're there, and it was a brilliant placement, IMO.

I do agree, personal preferences is something we can not talk about but we both know to recognize nice from ugly. Big software companies are polishing their software every day. Mac OS is leading the way and the rest is following. End user experience is very important so you must keep up with the best in the business.
Sitemap could be easily placed on the bottom of the page and have the same effect.

(4) Maybe one page checkout is coming, but I'll never use it, and it's a fallacy that it "makes money".

Well, I don't know about that.

I've seen exactly one one-page checkout that I thought was a good design. Generally all it does is make for a very looooong page, and confuses the customer at the bottom, because they need to see a confirmation page BEFORE they commit. I'm speaking from a shopper's POV. I have never left a website that had something I wanted because I had to go to 2 pages, or 3, or lost the connection before I was finished. Other things are way more important than one-page checkout...like not making me create an account just to buy your stuff.

http://www.cs-cart.com/checkout.html
This is it.

(5) The search function definitely needs work in OC, I agree (but, as usual, Daniel is working on that). But having a separate page explaining how to find what you're looking for...? People are more likely to click on your sitemap than on that. No one's ever going to spend the time reading something like that.

Its not that hard to implement and definitely wont hurt. Thing about any software is about details. Many software companies pay alot of money to have their Help option done properly. Usually they hire third party companies to do that work for them. So, help can never hurt even if it is about tips on advanced search.

JNeuhoff wrote:Opencart is one one the shopping carts which can be easily styled to a customer's needs, more so than any of the other carts I haved tried in the past, thank's to Opencart's clear MVC design.

Exactly my point. Open cart can exploit that fact.

I like CS-Cart.. they were the only pay cart that actually grabbed my attention when they first came out and I paid for a license (tho never used it). But on the topic of cs-cart's one page checkout... its a bit of a stretch. Using accordion tabs instead of pages still leaves you with 4 tabs to click on, resulting in 4 "steps"



Magento's OneStepCheckout addon is a bit more of a real 1 step


But yes, i've made one a while back for an earlier version of opencart and when we redesign the checkout process a bit in 1.5.x, things will be smoother and we will try again for a 1 or 2 step checkout option with optional account create on the success page

Magento's OneStepCheckout addon is a bit more of a real 1 step

I agree. magento model is more of a real one page checkout than CS-cart. Now you know what model to implement.

I don't really even mind if it's not one step, but the account creation success page really needs to go for sure then I think all the customer information should be on one screen so you can grab the relevant zone info and have the shipping and payment info on the second page, and then a confirmation page since some places require that. Doing it that way you should be able to reduce the steps considerably and you won't even have to go ajax. The layout is debatable. many people like the accordian style because it steps the user through the checkout and they always know where they are and it has a consistent look. For that matter the accordian style doesn't even really have to be one page it can be done with multiple pages as long as they look the same the user gets the appearance of a one page checkout. Then there are the people who want everything on one page like the magento one you posted. There are a couple of issues with that. First it requires AJAX no way around it (doesn't bother me, but you know people will complain ), and second finding a good layout is a pain. I personally can't stand the screenshot you posted of the magento onepage too much stuff all over the screen and too wide to fit many templates.

Wauw, this is one of the first critique topics I actually enjoyed reading

You have some valid arguments my friend, thank you for taking the time to post them with additional comments.

I think that because OC is still young we only have a few contributors who invest a lot of time in their contributions and therefore charge a small amount for their modules etc. I have no problems with that.
The main problem is that free or commercial modules need to be maintained to be used with new versions of OC or with additional requests (like you already mentioned) and that is where the problem lies.
If you want to update a commercial module that is not yours you cannot provide that update and release it to the community, even-tough the original seller is out of the picture.
A free module most of the time is updated just for personal use and never released to the community, in most cases the first contributor has already left the community.
You see the same with PrestaShop modules etc.

Functionality that you say you find necessary in a Cart will never be used by others, they probably find something else more needed.
It is a never ending story

The same goes for template, having a pretty template that comes default with the cart will have a lot of store's look the same because everyone will only change colors and images.

The shorting the checkout procedure is, the better.

a little bird told me that the default theme for 1.5.x will be bad ass!

Qphoria wrote:a little bird told me that the default theme for 1.5.x will be bad ass!

Will it still be simple to modify. Please don't make it so bad ass that only developers can modify. I never got to review Zen Cart cuz changing the template was too hard for a humble store owner.

It's great to have a u-beaut, fancy template with singing and dancing girls but if it's complicated then I'm not going to be able to modify it which leaves me waiting forever for a developer to get around to accepting my money. I don't mind paying but I do not like waiting for someone else to finally get around to doing the job.

I left Zen, Magento, Prestahop, CubeCart, etc etc etc, cos they were too hard for me to modify. But with Open Cart, I can teach myself to modify whatever I want with the help of posts in various forums.

I want a girl who's simple and easy to train. I don't want a fancy girl that's high maintenance. Actually, I want a boy but that's another topic not for public discussion.

I think any good paid module will sustain any upgrades within the same version range ie a module in 1.5.0 will still work in 1.5.8 - Of course it's not always the case, but it has gotten better and there seems to be a structure to the way the releases will be made now.

I see your point on the paid vs free, but the one thing I always think when people say everything to do with open source contributions should be free is that well, the open source project is going to make a person money (it's an e-commerce application after all) so people should just make money off other people's hard work? To me that doesn't seem right. I think you'll find that anyone who has a paid module will help those who need it anyway, even for upgrades

Xsecrets wrote:The layout is debatable. many people like the accordian style because it steps the user through the checkout and they always know where they are and it has a consistent look. For that matter the accordian style doesn't even really have to be one page it can be done with multiple pages as long as they look the same the user gets the appearance of a one page checkout. Then there are the people who want everything on one page like the magento one you posted.

I'm gonna support creation of any module that will help me went trough checkout as fast as possible.We can however debate about the model but having one is very important. Most of the people will stick to what is already implemented, at least at the very beginning. Remember what we talked earlier about templates. Commercial software like Interspire will get you everything you needed to get started. You might not like their "one" page checkout (which is very good in my opinion) but at least you got something, and if you really dont like it, you can buy another one or get someone to make the one you personally prefer.

i2Paq wrote:Functionality that you say you find necessary in a Cart will never be used by others, they probably find something else more needed.

No matter what I say, all the work will come down on you as a OC developer. No doubt about that. What we (the members of this forum) can do for you right now is to help you choose and decide what is important and what isn't (or better say : things that can wait). Simple rule of life teaches us that we can, if smart, learn from other people mistakes. When you are young in business like OC you don't have much choice, nor you have time to study or analyze return profit from a certain module, but you can learn from the experience of those who are longer in cart development. If you wish to play Columbo you will also ending up discovering America but if you look in the books you will definitely find out that America is already found. If you are in doubt if some module is necessary all you have to do is make a comparison of two or more professional grade carts (and not just any but those who are praised and used by many). Make a list of what they have and take only those mods that are included in both carts and thats how you will find out what mods are necessary. Of those that are common you start developing the most important ones. Make a comparision between Inerspire advanced search and CS advanced search. Whats the difference? Can you make it better? If so you will have the best Advanced Search in the business and your competitors will have to rewrite their searching scripts. Same thing goes with one page checkout. You must offer me a bridge between Interspire, Magento, or CS-Cart to your own and thats possible only if you have very clever way of improving things and very clever preinstalled mod list. Many people cant wait to get rid of their present shopping carts and move to some advanced and fast software and thats your way in. Im here for a 2 days and I like seeing Developers talking with the community. Thats a very good thing and I hope it will stay that way.

jty wrote:I want a girl who's simple and easy to train. I don't want a fancy girl that's high maintenance.

Exactly my point. Having a cart you dont have to modify right away is the key. It takes time and resources but it worth it. When I first installed Presta I had many problems and one of them was replacing that ugly default theme. How embarrassing. Modifying default template should be the last on my list. There was a problem with Advanced search (they still didnt make it . Dont get me wrong, I love all open source projects but you cant ignore endless requests for Advanced Search option. I hope they will develope one, for their sake not my) and few other things. I really dont like to bash any open source projects nor it is my intention, but God gave me the ability to observe things and make judgment about them. Some things in open source happen over and over again, and Im here only because I wouldnt like those things to happen to OC. It might be stupid of me, but I actually believe in this project. It already has two things very important for a future store owner : speed and easily customizable template.

Advanced search (they still didnt make it . Dont get me wrong, I love all open source projects but you cant ignore endless requests for Advanced Search option. I hope they will develope one, for their sake not my) and few other things.

What exactly would you want in an advanced search? Ajax-style drop down list with suggested search terms while typing in the search expression? More search options beyond the category choice and inclusion of descriptions?

jty wrote:

Qphoria wrote:a little bird told me that the default theme for 1.5.x will be bad ass!

Will it still be simple to modify. Please don't make it so bad ass that only developers can modify. I never got to review Zen Cart cuz changing the template was too hard for a humble store owner.

There is nothing bad ass about ZenCart themes. They don't count
But we are changing all template code to be in swahili... much easier I think

haha can't wait for that

JNeuhoff wrote: What exactly would you want in an advanced search? Ajax-style drop down list with suggested search terms while typing in the search expression? More search options beyond the category choice and inclusion of descriptions?

Interspire cart Advanced Search

CS-cart Advanced Search


Also, browsing the price range when you click on a category is a very nice addition.

As you can see, there is a difference between Interspire Advanced Search and CS-cart one and if you mix the two you will literally have the best Advanced Search on the market. Also if you add little bit of Ajax


Shop by price

* $0.00 - $46.00
* $46.00 - $67.00
* $67.00 - $88.00
* $88.00 - $109.00
* $109.00 - $130.00

Product Comparing is a nice addition too. Magento has a better solution than Interspire for example. In magento, if you compare two products you will be promped with a new window instead being redirected to another page like in Interspire. On the other hand, Interspire had a radio button which you click marking it for comparision rather than adding a product in comparision "cart-like block" from where you click on "Compare Products" like in Magento. Again, you will have a clear winner if you combine the two. It will be unique and will force the competition to rewrite their scripts. Open Cart doesnt have compare capabilities but my thinking is that if you have to make it than you better make it right because going back and doing it again is very hard.

Qphoria wrote:But we are changing all template code to be in swahili... much easier I think

Nzuri!