Post by Daniel » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:35 am

Hi Guys,

Just to let you know some scumbag has registered the name OpenCart ltd in the UK. I believe this is an attempt to export money out of opencart at some point. or try to steal the business!

His name is Botonakis Konstantinos

Hes also running this web site:

http://www.opencartgreece.gr

I have removed this guy as a seller and partner.

He has been supplying opencart users with invoices using the opencart ltd name.

He has no right to use the opencart name! I have a registered company in Hong Kong called opencart ltd since 2012 and have been running this project since 2004.

Botonakis Konstantinos is well aware of the opencart name being in use as he has been a extension seller since 2013.

He is confusing opencart users into believing we are issuing the invoices!

I have contracts in the UK and all around the world with payment gateway providers all signed with opencart ltd going back years.

There is not much i can do at the minute since the holiday season has just ended and need to wait until monday to speak with a lawyer.

I dont know what this guys plan is apart from wasting my time! that my development time has to be stopped just to sort this out!

Hes not the first idiot to try something like this!

remember osCommerce -vs- eCommerce Ventures Ltd

http://forums.oscommerce.com/topic/3435 ... tures-ltd/

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Post by tdaubs » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:39 am

Sure sounds like he is trying to scam people out of their money!

In the US, we have clients that question us all the time about odd 'invoices' they receive in the mail from 'domain registration' companies to see if they are legitimate. Usually 99% of these invoices are not 'real invoices' but rather shady and misleading contracts with odd wording that have the client unintentionally switch domain registrars, change hosting, etc... with exorbitant fees.

I wonder if the scammer might be targeting existing Opencart stores in the UK with these types of fake invoices.

If this is the case, he might be digging his own grave. Some of the people he is sending invoices to will probably question the reason for the invoice. Those people will probably end up contacting your company asking about the invoice at which point they can be alerted that the invoice is not legitimate and did not come from your company. That's going to put the scammer in an interesting predicament legally if people start reporting him to the authorities.

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Post by Johnathan » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:58 pm

Terrible...what a waste of time for everyone involved.

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Post by i2Paq » Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:59 pm

Yep, this happened to osCommerce to, also in the UK.

Get a lawyer and you will win it.

I'll try to find a link to the topic over at forums.oscommerce.com

Edit: The name osCommerce has been stolen!, by yours truly ;D

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Post by Daniel » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:43 pm

I have spoken with a lawyers who have handled the oscommerce case and I cant go into detail at the moment. its pretty straight forward and im not worrying about it.

thing is when i emailed this guy he acted like there was nothing i can do. We are different companies etc.., so he has the right to use the name.

how stupid!

https://www.gov.uk/fraud-and-international-trade

- stealing a business identity or creating a fake business

he has a web site with the opencart name in it. Hes using the opencart logo. hes issuing invoices to users of opencart with a invoice opencart ltd on it!

Instead of an apology and telling me he will change the name. im being told by this guy there is nothing i can do to stop him!

All he needed to do is pay 50 GBP to change the name or close the company down.

How much does it cost to hire a high end developer per hour these days?

around 80 GBP?

because so far i have wasted probably 5 hours researching laws, lawyers, trademarks etc.. as well as the cost of sending the letters out. around 650 altogether.

Instead of being able to work Ive had to waste my time on this! when its simple case and he has not got a leg to stand on!

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Post by i2Paq » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:56 pm

I would send him a bill up front and till him that if he looses you will go after him for settlement as well.

Make sure that bill reflects the real costs he will face, maybe he will come to his senses.

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Post by Daniel » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:16 pm

Good idea!

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Post by botonakis » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:38 am

As you already sent your opinion here to all users, about our company we would like to add the following just for second thought.

The company is registered since 2013 and used without any invoice as OpenCart even if the domain is opencartgreece.gr.
The company OpenCart LTD is already registered 100% legally in UK and in Greece is registered as Botonakis Web Development and invoicing as this name. Your company in UK is registered as OpenCart Cloud Limited.
The only issue we had and been already advised was the logo and the similarities of it and removed by a temporary version. The usage of the logo was after you made our company official Greek Partner (now you removed it).

Files, invoices, hosting, services and all the information shared are our creation and never invoiced as OpenCart as you said or used this name. Also, we have proof of the opposite. Do you have proof of what your are claiming?

As for addition we had proof for no paid extensions sales, banned accounts with no reason by yourself and threatening emails by you.

This is the 100% truth and the rest will be in the courts.

Some links:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/sear ... q=opencart
https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmtext.htm

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Post by Daniel » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:55 pm

I have attached part of my company registration in Hong Kong that was registered 2012! (i have not included the full version for security).
opencart br.jpg

opencart br.jpg (152.14 KiB) Viewed 5154 times

Your company in UK is registered as OpenCart Cloud Limited.
OpenCart cloud is my 2nd company! it was registered in the UK because my 2 other partners in this company are UK based. It was Incorporated on March 2015.

It is illegal to register a company name or trademark that is already in use! now maybe your argument would work out if we didn't have any customers in the UK but since we are no 2 in the UK in terms of people using opencart over other ecommerce scripts and your well aware of the opencart brand being used in the UK. As i said in my previous posts i have contracts going back since and before the company was registered.

plus 10,000's of people in the uk running stores with the word "powered by opencart" on them since 2005.

sourcefoge from 2006 (after i stopped downloads directly from my server).

http://sourceforge.net/projects/php-ope ... rce=navbar

you seem to be picking out laws that suit your needs and ignore the ones that won't. such as applying to register a company also implies copyright over said name!
The company is registered since 2013 and used without any invoice as OpenCart even if the domain is opencartgreece.gr.
you mean the domain name was registered since 2013. i have one registered in 2004.

you registered the company Oct 2015 (3 months ago).
Files, invoices, hosting, services and all the information shared are our creation and never invoiced as OpenCart as you said or used this name. Also, we have proof of the opposite. Do you have proof of what your are claiming?
I have the emails from you telling me that is why you registered the company!

your own words:
The company was registered by our company lawyer and not by me. The reason was 100% invoicing in UK.
if this is not true then so what is the reason you registered the same name company? let me guess, steal the brand!

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Post by i2Paq » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:48 pm

I think you should both stop discussing this in public.

Looking at the previous osCommerce case, where the name osCommerce was not even registered before Rhea tried her theft, we will just have to wait what the judge will say.

From what I know the UK IPO does not check anything so I can even register Microsoft if I want; registering it does not say anything.

On a personal note: Botonakis, you are just a thief.

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Post by Daniel » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:02 pm

From what I know the UK IPO does not check anything so I can even register Microsoft if I want; registering it does not say anything.
agreed!

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Post by uksitebuilder » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:24 pm

This is disturbing and not on at all, however, AFAIK, unless there is a registered trademark OpenCart ™ or another UK registered company name that is very similar to the one being registered 'OpenCart Limited' in the UK, then there is nothing stopping someone registering that UK Ltd company.

Of course, it is down to the judge to decide finally and it will most likely be a time consuming, expensive case to fight.

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Post by uksitebuilder » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:47 pm

I'm with you on this Daniel, it is disgusting what they have done and unethical if not illegal. I'm sure the judge will lean in you favour.

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Post by MarketInSG » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:10 pm

I do agree that OpenCart is widely known around the world and attempting to register OpenCart in UK is very misleading. It may lead others to think that the registered UK company belongs to Daniel as well.

To not waste each other's time, I think botonakis should consider dropping the name in UK and discuss it privately with Daniel.


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Post by mrbill » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:49 pm

I've had issues like this before, but fortunately did not have to go to court as a simple letter to the perpetrator solve the issue. It is called 'Passing Off' - perhaps a term that is not well known in Greece

http://www.companylawclub.co.uk/passing-off

This term is well known in Greece though - μαλάκας

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Post by i2Paq » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:39 pm

mrbill wrote:I've had issues like this before, but fortunately did not have to go to court as a simple letter to the perpetrator solve the issue. It is called 'Passing Off' - perhaps a term that is not well known in Greece

http://www.companylawclub.co.uk/passing-off

This term is well known in Greece though - μαλάκας
Nice find!

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Post by mrbill » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:31 pm

Some more detailed info:

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/intellectual-p ... ng-off.htm#

It should be no problem for Daniel to make his case, but much depends on how much of a μαλάκα he is dealing with.

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Post by Daniel » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:01 pm

Good find +1

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Post by jrfcomputing » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:26 pm

There are lots of case studies about Passing Off involving products across different countries. A quick google search brought this up. I know its biscuits but a product is a product

http://www.southeastasia-iprhelpdesk.eu/?q=en/node/311

Opencart sites I am currently working on:
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http://www.exclusivelygorgeous.co.uk/


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Post by mrbill » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:51 pm

When it is the same industry as in this case (i.e. software) - it is a no brainer. Gets a bit more complex when the companies are in different industries. This is a fairly famous case with some fairly large players:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Cor ... e_Computer

Of course, Apple Computer are now in the music business now too - so the lines can be very much blurred

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