Post by ksharlandjiev » Thu May 22, 2014 1:20 am

OSWorX
Do you realize that you just gave a perfect excuse for all the resellers, which will just say we are not reselling it, we are juts installing it to another website and we are not violating the standard GPL license?
I don't know what's your idea behind your post reply here, but I'm sure that Daniel had some idea when putting this text in the Terms & Conditions during purchase.

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Post by OSWorX » Thu May 22, 2014 3:05 am

ksharlandjiev wrote:OSWorX
Do you realize that you just gave a perfect excuse for all the resellers, which will just say we are not reselling it, we are juts installing it to another website and we are not violating the standard GPL license?
I don't know what's your idea behind your post reply here, but I'm sure that Daniel had some idea when putting this text in the Terms & Conditions during purchase.
Facts are facts.
There are so many myths around what is allowed and what not, these terms are not bringing much light into this issue.

For example many users in German speaking countries do think, that a GPL-based script has to be free.
Maybe they learn before English and read the GPL carefully - line by line.

Nobody told Daniel to publish OC under GPL.
He was able to choose any license - even creating an own.
Why he has chosen this - maybe he will explain it once.
But the fact is, he has used parts of GPL-licensed code (see for example the old uft8helper functions).
And with using such he was binded to this license.

If you find one reseller who is installing your scripts (or any commercial) and is charging explicit only for that, call your lawyer.
But if he is installing a shop based on OpenCart and embedding other (commercial) extensions and he is charging for the service only, good for him.

NO excuse, just fact.

If you (and others) read the the GPL carefully, it encourage people to make money.
With services, etc. - but not with stealing!

If you create a new module, you will own forever the copyright.
For the code.
NOT for the idea, NOT for the name.

If developer XY publish later a module with the same name, same functions, maybe code which looks like yours BUT is not exactly the same, good for him, bad for you.
But if you can clearly see that his code is using exactly the same (a few lines are enough - common judicature are speaking from around 10,15 lines) or the internal layout (functions, procedures, etc. are the same) - call your lawyer.

NO excuse, just facts.

Finally I do not like anyone who is stealing anything!
A good copy of an idea is something different - otherwise OC would be not existing.

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Post by Adikon Team » Thu May 22, 2014 4:26 am

If developer XY publish later a module with the same name, same functions, maybe code which looks like yours BUT is not exactly the same, good for him, bad for you.
some will use it as a green light for you know what ;)
and next to it, how you want to keep a quality of Extensions store?
if I'm right, it will be fine if we will do each extension from OC just with our own code, and it is ok with you?
to be clear, WITH MY OWN CODE, same name, same functions, just my own code.
maybe some PRO extensions section on OC market will help?
and to be honest, how as moderator you can say:"good for him, bad for you with selling my ideas, my quality, my hard work???
sorry, i just don't get it:(
i wish to hear some explanation, please
Finally I do not like anyone who is stealing anything!
A good copy of an idea is something different - otherwise OC would be not existing.
i understand this, but i think that some of our unique ideas can be protected some way.

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Post by ksharlandjiev » Thu May 22, 2014 4:52 am

Adikon leave it.
It is pointless to argue with moderators visions.
Let's all publish all extensions for free and solve the problem!
After all OpenCart is a free open source platform! Why extensions should be different?
This discussion is ridiculous!
Osworx are all your extensions free and if not why?

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Post by OSWorX » Thu May 22, 2014 4:59 am

Adikon Team wrote: .. and next to it, how you want to keep a quality of Extensions store?
Not as it is right now.
A 'review team' (as other repositories have) should do that job.
Also checking for unwanted code (like enrcypted, obfuscated, back-doors, etc.)
And clear definitions what an extension is.
Adikon Team wrote: .. and to be honest, how as moderator you can say:"good for him, bad for you with selling my ideas, my quality, my hard work??? ..
What has this todo with what I am thinking?
And I never said something about quality and work - you should quote what I have written!
If one of your extensions you are selling has not that quality a customer wants/needs, another maybe can do it (better).

An idea is only an idea - and everyone can make the best of it.
Or do you think that when you are publishing a module XYZ you will have the only right forever on it?
Wake up.

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Post by OSWorX » Thu May 22, 2014 5:01 am

ksharlandjiev wrote:Osworx are all your extensions free and if not why?
Why should they?
Customers buy my work, my time - not the code.
Guess you did also not understand what GPL means.

And your are right, useless to discuss here further - have to do.

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Post by ksharlandjiev » Thu May 22, 2014 5:14 am

I hope that Daniel will share his opinion, and answer the question I asked him.
I asked him a simple question and I didn't expect to get someone else religious thoughts.
The truth is that nobody asked for your opinion and what do you think. And now when I know your thinking I don't care of it :)
Simple as that.

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Post by Adikon Team » Thu May 22, 2014 8:08 am

OSWorX, i don't get you, Kamen is reporting a massive problem,
next, together with Daniel they are tracking moth*** er down. site with our stolen work is down, next to it Kamen is offering you a solution to avoid this problem in a future.
How you can say
Or do you think that when you are publishing a module XYZ you will have the only right forever on it?
Wake up.
.
SERIOUSLY?
With my previous quote i was just missing one comma, and this was so worth to even mention that? next to the much bigger problem?
YES, my stolen work is a bigger problem for me, and it will be nice to feel some support from your side.
Now i have a feeling that you just don't care, and it is ok with you if anyone will sell our unique ideas as own.
this is making me sad.
good night.
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Post by slavib » Thu May 22, 2014 9:11 pm

10 x

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Post by MarketInSG » Fri May 23, 2014 3:59 pm

I will have to agree with Adikon and Kamen. If we can have some sort of API to validate their orders, we can easily build validations into our extensions and bring up sales on OpenCart, which will benefit everyone, crack down on those people running on multiple sites and requesting support for multiple sites with one order! However, there's definitely not a way to stop real theft if they really wish to (unless you encrypt, which can still be cracked, but just not worth the time and money).

Ultimately, it depends on Daniel if he would like such a system implemented. I would give a +1 for this idea ;)

As for code theft, when I look into extension reports, I generally compare the file structures, their published date, and their contents. Adding functions to other's extension and selling it isn't acceptable. They usually get disabled. Hence, don't try it, don't attempt the claim that 'I added functions, I changed, etc...'


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Post by ksharlandjiev » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:42 am

http://themeforest.net/item/flatastic-p ... e/8186886/
Here we go again!
This time a nice bundle of stolen modules, including but not limited to:
Power Image manager, Ultimate content manager, Live ajax Search, Social login account, Super Maega Menu, Deals of the day, Pav Blog, Price filter slider, Customer testimonials and many many more....
Cheers for our Russian БРАТУШКИ!
:-\

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Post by willows » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:53 pm

Hi

I think this is a big problem not being able to protect works from being copied or installed on multiple installations.

If this problem is solved I think you will see big extensions making it into the market place.

The only way I see it being done securely is to ioncube the code of the extension with a check for the domain name /ip address where the code is going run from. No need to verification server or license manager. This scrambling service would be provided by OC and they would charge developers a fee for this. This way you can vet all the code to make sure its not a virus, get paid for the verification and in the end of the day it makes opencart a more secure ecommerce platform.

What it does is, 1 stop copying of extensions, multiple domain installs, and 2 it protects the developers code.

It will mean the license would need to be changed. Maybe something for OC2.

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Post by willows » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:47 pm

A quick easy solution ( but can be hacked around ) is to embed some code that is required to make the mod work that will turn up in a search engine. This code is entered when putting the extension into the market place. Compare the domain against the list of licensed domains and voila. Hey you could even code in some violation management tools there to collect fees.

It would catch the casual re-users who are never going to know what the code is that triggered their site to be snagged once it is cleverly coded. Because every extension provider will provide different code then the there is no common crack.

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Post by Dhaupin » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:16 am

I agree with these thoughts for protection API or hash validate for non-code people. However it wouldnt work in theory for the crux of the licensing problem. Not being a nay-sayer but....seriously....

Isn't this the same fight that has been going on since the dawn of common-man software back in the 70's? (yes)

Isn't this the same fight that the MPAA and others fight CONSTANTLY and millions of dollars havent solved? (yes)

Have we solved it yet 40+ years later? (no)

There will always be exploitations, cracked software shares, and illegal markets no matter what you do. It would be rather easy to remove the protections or spoof API/HOST locally in an open source software since the protections are....well....open. Basically everything you guys have said would be standardized, therefore standardized hax would remove it on all participating mods in a matter of hours (or seconds) after its publicly announced. This includes single domain, purchase confirm, or OC account validations.

Also lets think about someone who just mimics your code. No one evil cares about licenses...its just a bunch of meaningless words that really doesnt hold up, just like certain leases or many other types of contracts that attempt tough-love. The GPL for example has no actual authority besides the fact people "fear to disobey it". The fact they call it a license means absolutely nothing. There is no regulatory body in a legal sense. Protections like this, or copyright itself, are very limited when it comes to code. In fact, the true delimiter is copyright itself above any license or permission. Change the code and void copyright, dont include license, no one is the wiser, you make off like a bandit. Its no different than a stop sign - its your choice to stop and as long as the "law" doesnt see you disobey, and then have recorded evidence, its "legal". In essence, by including a deep security frame with validations, it gives *more* protection if an abuser were to remove it all and modify the code to run without. So much of it would change without your included validates that copyright would have a harder time pwning their face. Know what i mean? Its all a farse and we gotta just live with it for now.

I know that sounds very wrong, and it is, but thats the reality of 90% of cases of these arbitrary words. You can clone a book or copy a movie the same as someone else, but as long as enough words are different they cant sue you regardless of what "contracts" you never signed say youre allowed to do. Unless you patent the actual methodology, action, and theorum of your work, youre outta luck homies.

In the end, didnt you realize all of this going into software development? (yes). Are you really losing enough sales that would justify the time put in? If a user dosent buy your $50 mod cause he found it free, would it be worth your time per hour to develop? Could you develop a solution for less than $50 of your time? Sure if 50 users didnt buy your $50 mod it would be very worth it, but are you guys really losing that many sales?

THE SOLUTION IS NOT WHAT YOU WANNA HEAR:
This is one of the very few advantages to SaaS - app source is off-limits. Of course we all know OC isnt SaaS, but if you really believe in your module thats what you would do....open an OC APPaaS where it could only function with dynamic "hidden" logic components from a master protected OC server thats actually owned by OpenCart. Only it knows the userid hash-stamp <-> IP for 1 server to name request only. Its not often your server IP changes. If it does with shared host, would have to be extended to support that of course. If a malicious user were trying to connect as you, even on your IP, even as a masked multistore, it would alert you "hey someone is trying to snaggletooth via your APPaaS channel, should i allow this?"

Install IP + OC Master @ Server Level Account Validate + Locked Out Logic Nodes = All Your Re-sells Are Done...it wouldnt function and they would have to know what you know to code it.

This would have to be a paid kinda service since it would make OC API cloud get hit like crazy with production traffic, but it would be the most secure choice since the mods you sell would require information from OC API rather than just calling for an acceptable confirm. Seems the same, but consider your API mod @OC would be logic nodes -- something 90% of software theifs cant make themselves. Sure they could HOST spoof your api, but if its not returning what you built

I would worry less about protecting work and more about making it un-popular or infeasible for noobs to re-sell work. After a certain threshold, protection becomes a losing battle while brute force fighting back against the offenders becomes the successor. Either by DENIED or PWNED....

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Post by willows » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:01 pm

http://themeforest.net/item/flatastic-p ... e/8186886/

this theme has been removed by envato now. Simply posted a comment questioning how you can sell €149 worth of addons for €45 including the template. Another poster replied to say that it was stolen code and hey presto its gone this am.

Yes Saas is the only way I see it working. If it goes that way a fork happens immediately. Unless you fork it yourself.
MS and abobe products are defacto Saas products relying on an internet connection to work, they have given up on this license idea.

But if more people use the platform then it keeps it alive the whole idea of GPL. Just need to be vigilant for rogues.

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Post by Johnathan » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:03 am

Finally! I filed a bunch of DMCA takedown requests since myopencart.info was selling stolen extensions, and it seems to have worked this time: their site is offline.

If anyone finds any other sites selling stolen extensions, let me know and I'll try to do the same.

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Post by chriso » Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:39 am

Johnathan wrote:Finally! I filed a bunch of DMCA takedown requests since myopencart.info was selling stolen extensions, and it seems to have worked this time: their site is offline.

If anyone finds any other sites selling stolen extensions, let me know and I'll try to do the same.
Dear Johnathan,

i can still access the site unfortionatly atleast from Europe.

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Post by Johnathan » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:32 pm

Hmm...yes, it appears to be back now. Why can't hosts cooperate with valid DMCA requests? >:(

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