Post by Daniel » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:02 pm

After the release of opencart 2.0 the extension store will be changed so when buyers buy an extension they will have only 1 year of free updates. If buyers want to continue to receive updates for the extensions they have to purchased they need to buy another license.


A lot of company s have business models like this. I have discussed this with a few developers and they also feel its unfair that they give a never ending amount of updates and support to buyers when some buyers have purchased an extension over 3 years ago.

I hope everybody can understand!

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Post by Johnathan » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:15 am

Is there going to be an option for developers to offer a license with no time limitation? Or an option to charge different pricing for upgrade pricing vs. purchasing pricing?

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Post by James » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:34 am

Probably not, 12 months is more than enough time for a user to be getting support.

Daniel's idea is to move more in favor of developers to give a 'cap' on the time at which modules can be downloaded (after purchase etc) and supported.

This of it like ANY other download purchase licence where you buy and get 12 months support included. It is probable that we (or Daniel) will release a feature that offers a discount renewal cost for users after 12 months.

I would not be surprised to see an additional cost per URL/domain that users must pay per install. I am, for one, sick of users buying 1 license and installing the module on many stores, or reselling/distributing.

Open Source has become too "open source", where the money raising parts of it have become too accustom to free distribution. Once this saturates, the free part will no longer be free - so I urge people to play fair!

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Post by JAY6390 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:01 am

I have to say I don't agree with the 1 license per domain especially considering OC has multistore built in - If it's the store owner buying it, they should be allowed to have it one per owner, so they can use it on as many of their own sites as they like. This is the license I allow my customers to have. It doesn't mean webmasters can use it for all of their clients however, since they don't own the stores - they merely work on them. I do like the 12 month license option, however it should be given as the start of each current purchaser's licenses starting the day OC 2.0 is released not from their original purchase, or we'll have lots of people complaining they can't download and not know why

It would be good to have coupons too as it's likely if any of my extensions require a lot of changes to get it working with 2.0, I can create a new extension and offer previous purchasers the new version at a discount

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Post by dmsims » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:19 am

Woudn't it be better to

a) do this by major version number ?

b) let developers decide what model they wish to offer their customers ?

Lifetime upgrades/support is hardly unique to Opencart extensions

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Post by cosmicx » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:44 am

I agree to the above also, so only after major update, the buyer should buy a new license. Free if only revision or patch. Following the semantic versioning, Vx.x.x

So if the module is release at for instance, v1.0.0
when the author made a patch or update that makes the module version updated to v1.0.1
then, the buyer shall still be entitled for the update.

BUT not anymore if it is a new updated version, for instance the author made a complete update and making the version updated to v2.0.0

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Post by MarketInSG » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:46 pm

Regarding the use of extensions on one domain, I would say limit it to one OpenCart installation would sound more reasonable because of OpenCart's multi store function.


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Post by OSWorX » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:54 pm

Beside the Extension store every developer has the freedom to offer support and updates the way he wants.

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Post by labeshops » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:24 pm

MarketInSG wrote:Regarding the use of extensions on one domain, I would say limit it to one OpenCart installation would sound more reasonable because of OpenCart's multi store function.
I agree. I've always felt the current wording is confusing given multi-stores.

Running Opencart v2.2 with multi-stores from http://www.labeshops.com which has links to all my stores.

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Post by butte » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:12 am

Whichever way might be allowed or excluded, among catchword phrasing such as per domain, per subdomain, per owner, per storefront driven, per installation even if multiple, per webmaster reseller, per whatever, the wording must still be qualified explicitly in order to shut off in advance whatever bickering ought to be expected. The catchword phrases by themselves readily bring to mind the classic illusion silhouette, of the vase between two conversants' faces, each view making perfect sense even if seen clearly even both ways at once, but with no definitive reason or requirement ever given for choice. Here the choice is yea or nay -- pay for e-x-a-c-t-l-y what or go away.

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Post by James » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:28 am

Regarding the use of extensions on one domain, I would say limit it to one OpenCart installation would sound more reasonable because of OpenCart's multi store function.
Sorry yes to be clear, I support one licence per install (not url due to the multistore!)

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Post by crojo » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:38 am

I agree on the 12 month license for downloads on the extension store, this makes complete sense.

Most customers make contact outside of opencart once they have purchased the extension and it is up to the developer how they handle each query after that, I don't mind helping the genuine customers out for free when they are sticking to the license agreements outside of 12 months.

I think there needs to be another layer to the extension store for webdevs to purchase multiple licenses at a time at a reduced cost, I have had a few customers ask about this.

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Post by thekurbster » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:06 am

Sorry if i didn't see it but, When is version 2 coming out? Because I am making a mod and i want to make sure i dont waste time making it for 1.5.6 if 2 is around the corner.

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Post by JAY6390 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:09 am

Pretty sure it's not just around the corner to be honest, and even if it is, I can guarantee you the majority of your custom will be through sites using 1.5.X for at least the first 3 - 6 months or so - so it's definitely not going to be a waste of your time to create it for 1.5.X

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Post by Qphoria » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:49 am

I am already getting people asking me about an Expired license showing on their account page. Has this already gone into effect?

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Post by butte » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:27 am

thekurbster, there will still be, as there are now, an abundance of folks with even 1.4.x and a full array of 1.5.x sticking with those for an extended while -- a longstanding, stable, dependable, ongoing shop should not be upgraded hastily or prematurely just to have any newest version, and certainly not before any bugs have been dispensed with. And just as surely as autocompletion has worked as it should but has caused fits anyway (prompting at least two extensions for reverting to drop-downs), there will be features that many folks just won't like or want. Whatever effort you put into pre-2 will not be wasted -- all I'm venturing to add to what JAY6390 just said is that prior versions will still be in use long after the first 3-6 months. As for when -- whenever it is actually ready, not before December, and possibly by year's end if all goes well; possibly "not just around the corner" but likewise not prematurely. Nobody yet knows when.

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Post by ukdesigner » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:58 am

As an end user who has purchased several modules (and some custom work) for ONE site may I give an opinion.

There are some modules that are low cost and do what they say straight away. Then there are other modules that have a few minor flaws that the developer fixes over time. Some developers choose to add extra features to enhance the appeal of the product.

Some modules for sale are low cost, however some are most definitely not.

I understand the model Opencart follows, its not unique eg Concrete5 follows the same route: a free opensource product with commercial add-ons.

I think there are some major issues here. I have found the need for many add-ons for features that some of the paid-for e-commerce products have out of the box. However once you start to add up the commercial modules purchased to match these features it starts to be less cost-effective to go free opensource.

Once you start forcing developers to stick to a 12 month free update cycle you may find a drop in uptake:

1. Some developers are not so timely in their support of their modules as some are doing it distinctly part-time and others are just not so interested in maintaining their product.

2. Some modules are quite costly and if a user has to re-purchase again...

In the mainstream software world paid-for upgrades are not unique. However they are usually a fraction of the original license and vary depending on how many new features are added.

You need to think about this very carefully please.

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Post by JAY6390 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:41 am

ukdesigner wrote:I have found the need for many add-ons for features that some of the paid-for e-commerce products have out of the box. However once you start to add up the commercial modules purchased to match these features it starts to be less cost-effective to go free opensource.
While I can appreciate where you are coming from with this, it's pretty straight forward to work out roughly what you need to add to an OC site to then get an idea of the cost of any additional extension, and compare with a commercial product that does the same/similar. I'd be amazed if a commercial alternative had many more features than OpenCart has by default. OpenCart to me is already getting a bit bloated with "nice features" that a lot of stores could do without and should be separate downloads
ukdesigner wrote:Once you start forcing developers to stick to a 12 month free update cycle you may find a drop in uptake
I had the same concern
ukdesigner wrote: In the mainstream software world paid-for upgrades are not unique. However they are usually a fraction of the original license and vary depending on how many new features are added.

You need to think about this very carefully please.
This I agree with and the reason I want to have a coupon system where I can give purchasers a coupon to repurchase at a discounted price. Pretty much all software purchases these days will give you a re-purchase discount when upgrading

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Post by Qphoria » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:07 am

ukdesigner wrote:I have found the need for many add-ons for features that some of the paid-for e-commerce products have out of the box. However once you start to add up the commercial modules purchased to match these features it starts to be less cost-effective to go free opensource.
I don't disagree with some of your points..Tho on this one... while you could say that having to pay for updates each year could be more expensive than going with a commercial store, you should also note that you are free to use that license you have with your current store indefinitely. You really only need to repurchase if you are upgrading to a new version or want some new features that have been added to the module since you purchased. In both of those cases I would think that there may be a fair upgrade fee as it is likely that both cases would have caused the module developer to add additional time to the mod to improve or update the code. How long can it be expected that we update $20 mod you bought 3 years ago.

Here are a few alternatives for licensing....

1. Leave it up to the developer to select finite license "per individual product". Add a select box that lets us choose from 6 months to 2 years

2. Add multiple "select box" license choices to a mod and allow the customer to pay for additional licensing ahead of time for a lower cost. Similar to how you get a discount for buying 2 years of domain registration instead of 1. This could either be statically priced based on the base cost:
Base 50.00
- 1 Year License (included)
- 2 Year License (+25%)

Or allow the developer to enter multiple prices per licensing term:
- Mod with 6 mo support - $40
- Mod with 1 yr support - $50
- Mod with 2 yr Support - $70
This may then allow people with more startup income to save in the long run by buying a longer license for less, and also give users with less startup money the option to buy a cheaper mod but lose out on support in the long run. But it would be up to the individual developers to offer it. This then puts the control into the purchaser's hand and there are no surprises at the end of the term.

We also should see how much longer our license is valid in the account area so that when its the last day of our license, we can be sure to grab the latest versions of the code before the download link expires.

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Post by solution2u » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:21 pm

Qphoria wrote:
ukdesigner wrote:I have found the need for many add-ons for features that some of the paid-for e-commerce products have out of the box. However once you start to add up the commercial modules purchased to match these features it starts to be less cost-effective to go free opensource.
I don't disagree with some of your points..Tho on this one... while you could say that having to pay for updates each year could be more expensive than going with a commercial store, you should also note that you are free to use that license you have with your current store indefinitely. You really only need to repurchase if you are upgrading to a new version or want some new features that have been added to the module since you purchased. In both of those cases I would think that there may be a fair upgrade fee as it is likely that both cases would have caused the module developer to add additional time to the mod to improve or update the code. How long can it be expected that we update $20 mod you bought 3 years ago.

Here are a few alternatives for licensing....

1. Leave it up to the developer to select finite license "per individual product". Add a select box that lets us choose from 6 months to 2 years

2. Add multiple "select box" license choices to a mod and allow the customer to pay for additional licensing ahead of time for a lower cost. Similar to how you get a discount for buying 2 years of domain registration instead of 1. This could either be statically priced based on the base cost:
Base 50.00
- 1 Year License (included)
- 2 Year License (+25%)

Or allow the developer to enter multiple prices per licensing term:
- Mod with 6 mo support - $40
- Mod with 1 yr support - $50
- Mod with 2 yr Support - $70
This may then allow people with more startup income to save in the long run by buying a longer license for less, and also give users with less startup money the option to buy a cheaper mod but lose out on support in the long run. But it would be up to the individual developers to offer it. This then puts the control into the purchaser's hand and there are no surprises at the end of the term.

We also should see how much longer our license is valid in the account area so that when its the last day of our license, we can be sure to grab the latest versions of the code before the download link expires.
Well said.

Alternatively, instead of repurchase license is the only option, developer can also offer cheaper subscription service i.e. 25% of original price per year.

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