Post by OC2PS » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:41 pm

i2Paq wrote:I just found out that PrestaShop had this functionality!
Not just that - PrestaShop has the functionality to set different gross prices by country!
uksitebuilder wrote:I created a vqmod a while back, maybe it still works with latest version
http://forum.opencart.com/viewtopic.php ... 42#p198234
It was for UK Vat @ 20%, so will need editing for 19% or 21%
You are pretty AWESOME! Seriously, you have made some fantastically useful mods and are very helpful on these forums as well.

Thanks for sharing this vqmod too. This, however, is one of the few functionalities for which I wouldn't use a vqmod. Why? Simply because it is so critical to the core function of the cart that I can't risk potential incompatabilities in the future.

If you don't mind, I have a suggestion that requires a bit more work from you. Now that Daniel has moved OpenCart to GitHub, perhaps you could submit a patch via pull request, and we can all plead with Daniel to merge it in the core. This patch should:
  1. Allow site-owner/shop-admin to select whether (s)he wants to enter gross prices or net prices
  2. If site owner enters gross prices, then tax (and net price) should be calculated based on tax class (we currently sell products that fall under 3 different tax rates within our country)
  3. BONUS: Would be cool if the patch also rounds up gross prices for each installed currency, based on site-owner's directions, i.e. number of decimal places, round up/down/traditional

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Post by Ljubo » Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:08 am

rmi wrote:
SXGuy wrote:Actually i dont think that will be a problem.

Remember, prices excluding tax will stay the same, its the % of tax applied to the price that changes. -clip-
If it's ok that your front prices are like 101.48€, why would you need to input prices incl.vat in first place? I wan't to round my prices in even numbers and if there is prices like 101.48 - I will go with 99 to feel less expensive. Sometimes can be rounding up too. And this is why I would like to input prices with vat because otherwise I have to calculate manually vat0% prices in 4 decimals to gain exact 'front prices'. But if changing vat% all nice prices needs to be updated one by one again.
I am absolutely with you rmi!
as the matter of fact, I have the situation right now.
I want to have attractive look of prices for both retail and wholesale customers. by attractive look I mean rounded figures, at least, if not something like 99,00 instead of 98,10 or 101,65.
the problem is that for retail customers, the prices have to be shown with VAT, while for wholesale customers prefered are prices without VAT - off course, in checkout cart VAT would be separately shown and calculated in.
so, rounded, market oriented figures should be for both cases, with VAT and without VAT.
for example, good looking retail price (with VAT) is 99$, if VAT is 20%. then price without VAT should be 82,50$ - which is not so good looking for wholesale customers. I would like here to put something like 79$ (just for an example).
it would work like a charm, I think, if in the admin section I could choose to enter prices with or without VAT and that for different customer groups, including to be able to have different prices according to the customer groups.

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Post by SXGuy » Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:47 am

You cant have it both ways, if you understand how VAT is applied you would also understand this.

You either want to have rounded prices including vat or rounded excluding vat.

If your price is 99 including vat @ 20% then vat would be 16.5.

meaning excluding vat would be 82.5.

if you wanted to round your excluding price to 83, then vat would be 16.60! which would equal 99.60!

you can NOT pick and chose how much vat to apply to an item, its illegal for a start, if you want to round your prices up which include vat fine, work out how much vat would be applied at that price, but you can not then have a price excluding vat rounded also.

Simple mathmatics.

EDIT: im going to stop following this thread now, because im sick and tired reading posts from people who have no idea about how vat/tax works, and what is legal and illegal. Quite frankly, im suprised your even registered to charge vat if you cant even understand how it works, And if i was your customer, and found i was being charged the wrong amount of vat, just because you "want your prices to look good" i would be exteamly angry.

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Post by Ljubo » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:30 am

I have great respect for your work in the opencart community.
hat down.

however, please, try to look at things not straight forward, or look them at least open minded.
then, you will see the other side of the story as well.

believe me, I do know how VAT system works.

I will try to explain better what I wanted to say.

basically, it comes down to have different prices for retail and for wholesale customers. I certainly hope so that you would agree with me that it is not illegal.
now, for example, for retail customer, product X would have a price tag of 99,00 USD (VAT 20% included, it means its price without VAT is 82,50 USD - correct?)
for the wholesale customer, I want the price tag to be 79,00 USD (VAT 20% excluded, but off course VAT of 20% to be calculated in the Invoice, i.e. total price of the product would be 94,80 USD)
so, VAT of 20% is to be calculated regulary on top of each customer group price without VAT - that is ellegal?

in another words, I would like to have the possibility of entering different prices for different customer groups, all in order to achieve rounded numbers - for retail customers rounded prices with VAT, and for wholesale customers rounded prices without VAT.

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Post by Ljubo » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:48 am

uksitebuilder wrote:I created a vqmod a while back, maybe it still works with latest version

http://forum.opencart.com/viewtopic.php ... 42#p198234

It was for UK Vat @ 20%, so will need editing for 19% or 21%

Simply edit and replace 1.2 with 1.19 or 1.21

It still enters the ex-tax price in to the database but allows you to add it as inc vat in a separate field.

There is a demo running at: http://1511-2.designs.org.uk/admin/ edit a product to see it in action
this is already half way done to solve my issue.
and would be pretty done if only would have the possibility of entering price with or without VAT in Discount tab as well (not only in Data tab)
in order to be the complete solution, there should be a way to select different price tagging in product and category pages depending on customer groups.

EDIT: I have tried by myself to expand the uksitebuilder's vqmod to include the Discount tab as well.... unfortunately it is not working. Modification is attached, could someone have a look on it?
thanks!

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unfortunately, not working!


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Post by rmi » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:28 am

A bit off-topic but somehow related..

I get your point and see your goal Ljubo, it's not illegal (at least not in developed countries =)
You might wan't to try extension Bulk Product Update Pro. It has tax tool included and a lot better product admin with gross/net prices shown on product list.

What comes to pricing, for me vat0% price $81.69 'feels like' it's very strictly calculated and 'justified cost' rather than 79 sounds like trimmed retail price with some extra on it. But this is just matter of taste.
With retail prices it's a fact that 99 will sell more than 100,01.

I'm using multistore with few renamed copies of currency for wholesale customers so they can choose to see retail or wholesale price, with or without tax. Of course, only one price can be 'trimmed' since working with multipliers. My retail site has no option for currency so they don't have access to wholesale prices.

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Post by OC2PS » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:00 am

SXGuy wrote:You cant have it both ways
Sure you can.

I think what he's after can be achieved simply by changing the prices to "inclusive of tax".

Then he can set up retail customers group to pay VAT, and distributors to not pay VAT. Then he can set up "beautiful prices" for both.

e.g.

VAT: 17%

Customer price: 149.5726 (incl tax 175)
Distributor price: 100

Sorry for the glib "you can have it both ways" in the beginning of this reply. As you see, I really mean that he's not trying to have it both ways. OC allows prices for different customer groups to be different, and also allows admin to choose whether or not to apply VAT to a customer group.

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Post by Ljubo » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:03 am

rmi wrote: You might wan't to try extension Bulk Product Update Pro. It has tax tool included and a lot better product admin with gross/net prices shown on product list.
it is very interesting, but if I understood it correctly, parameters are changed one by one still.
I think that for me better solution would be some Import/Export tool. Maybe I am wrong...
rmi wrote: What comes to pricing, for me vat0% price $81.69 'feels like' it's very strictly calculated and 'justified cost' rather than 79 sounds like trimmed retail price with some extra on it. But this is just matter of taste.
With retail prices it's a fact that 99 will sell more than 100,01.
I could agree with you on that. I do also think on that way when I see someone else' s prices.
on the other hand, the local currency has useless decimal figures. for example, there are no coins of value lower than 1. prices still can be shown in decimals, but in cash transactions, amounts are rounded.
it becomes custom for wholesale also to round their prices...
rmi wrote: I'm using multistore with few renamed copies of currency for wholesale customers so they can choose to see retail or wholesale price, with or without tax. Of course, only one price can be 'trimmed' since working with multipliers. My retail site has no option for currency so they don't have access to wholesale prices.
this is extremely interesting idea hence my shop is for local market only... so I could use other currencies for that purposes as well as you did.
thanks for the idea!

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Post by Ljubo » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:12 am

OC2PS wrote: I think what he's after can be achieved simply by changing the prices to "inclusive of tax".
system/settings/local/Default Tax Class => selected appropriate VAT class
system/settings/option/Display Prices With Tax => YES
OC2PS wrote: Then he can set up retail customers group to pay VAT, and distributors to not pay VAT. Then he can set up "beautiful prices" for both.
where / how?

anyway, once again I tried:
catalog/products/edit/Discount tab => and entered some price for wholesale customer group
save it then edit it again and... voila!
uksb's vqmod upgraded by me to include discount prices just started to work how it should!!! ;D
changed the discount price of exc. VAT to be rounded and saved it.
checked the front pages with retail customer, showing exc. VAT and rounded inc.VAT nicely.
logged in as a whoelsale customer and there was rounded price exc.VAT duplicated (in both formats).
thats it!
I think the easiest way to remove that double price labels for wholesale customers, would be just to remove completely the 'price-tax' echo in all tpl files having that inside.
at last, some legend saying that prices dispalyed are with VAT for retail, and without VAT for wholesale could be easily put as a separate module somewhere to be visible...

so, can anyone check attached before vqmod to see why it is working correctly only on edit the entered numbers and not from the beginning?
it should be easy for any of you professionals.
thanks

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Post by Ljubo » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:30 pm

well, I did it to work in Special tab as well, but only when editing the before saved prices (for Discount & Special).

there is still open call for anyone to fix it to work perfectly...

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working in Data tab 100%, for Discount & Special tab working only on editing before saved discount and/or special amount.


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Post by slingeraap » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:56 am

In all the accounting software i had i was able to enter prices including VAT. Then when i specified the tax-rate for that item, it would calculate the prices excluding VAT and put those in the database. I think that is the way it should work.

I think there has to be a default toggle in the store options to enter prices excluding or including VAT. If that value is set to 'excluding VAT', it should all work like it is now. But if that default value is set to 'including VAT', then when in product details, when you save, it should save those price values calculated in 4 decimals according to which tax group for that product was specified. An extra (read-only) price field with the calculated price excluding VAT next to normal price field would be nice, if prices including VAT is selected in the default options.

So i totally agree to put prices excluding VAT in the database. But there is the possibility to enter prices including VAT and do some calculation on it according to which tax group is selected, and then put the calculated price into the database.

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Post by thegeekz » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:07 pm

slingeraap wrote:In all the accounting software i had i was able to enter prices including VAT. Then when i specified the tax-rate for that item, it would calculate the prices excluding VAT and put those in the database. I think that is the way it should work.

I think there has to be a default toggle in the store options to enter prices excluding or including VAT. If that value is set to 'excluding VAT', it should all work like it is now. But if that default value is set to 'including VAT', then when in product details, when you save, it should save those price values calculated in 4 decimals according to which tax group for that product was specified. An extra (read-only) price field with the calculated price excluding VAT next to normal price field would be nice, if prices including VAT is selected in the default options.

So i totally agree to put prices excluding VAT in the database. But there is the possibility to enter prices including VAT and do some calculation on it according to which tax group is selected, and then put the calculated price into the database.

I agree with the above viewpoint as well.

Well I tried Ljubo's upgraded version, the only 2 things now is this :

In the Discount Tab, there are more than 1 line right... so each line, when I enter a different price for the Inc. VAT/GST, the Exc. TAX/GST became the same figure! Any way to solve this?

1st Line
Image A.jpg

Image A.jpg (30.49 KiB) Viewed 33610 times

2nd Line
Image B.jpg

Image B.jpg (28.57 KiB) Viewed 33610 times

And lastly, there is a problem if I add in additional line no matter to the Discount tab or the Special tab in this manner - The last field would disappear:
Image D.jpg

Image D.jpg (54.54 KiB) Viewed 33610 times

I confirm the original codings without the XML file here, is alright. no missing fields.
Help anyone?

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Post by Ljubo » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:25 pm

I have realized the same problems few days ago, but unfortunately, I can not help.
I am not a programer, so if anyone could further upgrade it, I would appreciate greatly.

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Post by thegeekz » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:28 pm

Ljubo wrote:I have realized the same problems few days ago, but unfortunately, I can not help.
I am not a programer, so if anyone could further upgrade it, I would appreciate greatly.
Yea, I hope someone could help us too!!

Where are the true experts? :(

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Post by i2Paq » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:59 pm

There is a vQmodby Qphoria where you can, instead of prices, enter the percentage of discount you want to give.

This is much more convenient then entering a Price.

[vQmod] Enter Percentage for Discounts & Specials

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Post by Ljubo » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:06 pm

yes, percentage is quite OK, and it is doing its job really nice.
however...

with percentage you can not round numbers, you can not put lets say 99 instead of percentage calculation of $100.45...
that is the whole point here.

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Post by thegeekz » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:31 am

Ljubo wrote:yes, percentage is quite OK, and it is doing its job really nice.
however...

with percentage you can not round numbers, you can not put lets say 99 instead of percentage calculation of $100.45...
that is the whole point here.
Hmm Is there any way to round off the $ numbers after % discounted?

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Post by Runes » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:37 pm

I'm not sure if this is related or not, but I have the following problem (I guess an easy fix?....)

I have one tax class only on all products.

The prices shows up as they should, including tax, in the store.

When you go to the cart and then to the counter getting ready to do the final payment, the prices comes out WITHOUT tax?
This is not wanted....

Is it maybe something I have missed, like some settings or something?

Thanks
RS

It WAS an easy fix. I had deactivated "TAX" in Ordertotals under Extensions..... Not easy to figure it all out when you're a newbe

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Post by dynamictemplate » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:38 pm

I think its godd option.
The ability to choose is always good!

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Post by rmi » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:41 am

Finnish vat just raised from 23 to 24%.
Prices became almost unreadable 95,00 --> 95,77 | 145,00 --> 146,18 | 199,00 --> 200,62
In my world price needs to have two decimals (,00) in the end to look like price.

What I did to fix was simple sql sentence in phpMyAdmin:
UPDATE product
SET price = (price*1.23/1.24)

This updates all prices in blink of an eye.

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