Post by Burt65 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:09 pm

OpenCart Addons wrote:
One solution that has been brought up in the past is to send support requests for extensions directly to developers. Right now the Request Support link on the extension page goes to your team.

Joel.
Ideally it should go to both OC and the developer. Then, if in the given time frame a resolution is not found, at least OC has all the copy of the correspondence to make an informed decision. It would also help and streamline the process immensely if there were a global database of FAQ here in OC divided in developer Name Folders, and searchable by both ,extension name and developer name, so that a new customer maybe don't even have to reach to the developer to find his/her answer to the problem, whatever that may be. How many times Joel have you answered the exact same question over and over in the comments area...

The comment should be only for customer to comment on the extension and or (if is not in the FAQ here) ask for further explanation, and for the developer to interact with the new customers and or questions not previously asked, and definitely not deleted at the developer discretion any time they feel like. That's the main reason why there are so many bad theme and extension in the shop at the moment. You can't tell any more what's good bad or ugly. An independent person should be the only one allowed to remove irrelevant comments.

Wouldn't that be a dream shop to go to... :D

We all need to start seriously thinking the best way to protect both customers and developers alike...

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Newbie

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by Daniel » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:06 pm

the new event system i have added should also help a lot with templates. no need to replace any existing code.

OpenCart®
Project Owner & Developer.
OpenCart commercial support now available!


User avatar
Administrator

Posts

Joined
Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:57 pm

Post by Daniel » Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:28 am

another thing to think about is why so many complaints about magentos support? and these guys have 500+ people working for them. so its not just the opencart project.

any one can suggest the best way to setup a charge for support service.

20 usd a month? what does that include?

live chat?
priority support ticket?

what about a paid system where people ask the questions or request support and the community answer the questions and get paid for it.

im already thinking of stetting up a reward points system where buyers can reward sellers for helping them.the reward points can help rank extensions positions.

OpenCart®
Project Owner & Developer.
OpenCart commercial support now available!


User avatar
Administrator

Posts

Joined
Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:57 pm

Post by Burt65 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:43 am

Daniel wrote: any one can suggest the best way to setup a charge for support service.

20 usd a month? what does that include?

live chat?
priority support ticket?

what about a paid system where people ask the questions or request support and the community answer the questions and get paid for it.

im already thinking of stetting up a reward points system where buyers can reward sellers for helping them.the reward points can help rank extensions positions.

IMO

Opencart

Opencart Support Service Free Opencart = N/A
Opencart Standard, Deluxe, Premium... = cost of Opencart model + 3 months $xx.xx, 6-12 month = $xx.xx

Live chat & support ticket = Yes but only for Opencart related issue, and which ever extension it may came bundled with, not for all the extension in the shop.

Extension page
Extension Support Service

Extension = $xx.xx plus 3,6,12 (what ever the developer wants) of free support
after that = $xx.xx 3,6,12 (what ever the developer wants) for support and service (this charge would be apply at the checkout in exact the same way as all other eCommerce shop do work)

I also believe that Opencart should be only involved with the sale of the extension as far as the Quality of both extension and support but not of how the developer wishes to provide his services for such extension. (if they want to use live chat or support ticket is entirely up to them. They will found pretty quickly what works for them and their customers.

Opencart would off course provide the developer and customers with a set of Guide line of what is required to maintain the Quality of Standard.

Finally if an extension has stop been supported for 6 months should not been available for purchase and removed from the shop after 12 months (but not deleted entirely as previous customers need to know what has happen). So probably an archive folder would be the right place for such extensions.

But I would stress that Opencart and the extensions/theme provided by the developer are and should be always two completely separate entities!
what about a paid system where people ask the questions or request support and the community answer the questions and get paid for it.
The community is already doing this for free, and if the shop would work as envisioned, there would be probably not much need left for support of the extensions. But if we must, let then setup a ranking system for the community as well, where the user that does help and the help is "valid", then his/her rank would go up. This would have three benefit:
1) the other community user get to see at glance who is to trust as far as proper advices
2) It would improved the quality of the advices automatically as users who give bad advices would have no rank.
3)Size down the length and quantity of post, allowing the community to a find relevant post quickly, as bad ranked user and their reply would disappear pretty fast from the scene as no one would pay attention to them any more.

This can be easily implemented in the current forum by adding the ranking system and the Users themselves can then vote for the rank. (same as karma,like/dislike post, thank, awards... these should be all available for phpBB)

Then if Opencart wishes to reward the highest ranks in the shop and in the Forum, it can do so in any way they wish.

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Newbie

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by OpenCart Addons » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:31 am

Daniel wrote:any one can suggest the best way to setup a charge for support service.
I think one of the issues is that there is no structure in the community, which would need to be a main factor in order for customers to pay for support. Who is qualified to answer questions correctly? What happens if two people answer the question correctly at relatively the same time frame; do they both get paid for their support?

An idea I have is a “Don’t worry guys, I’ve got this handled” (official name to be determined) button that the qualified and vetted community can press, notifying the rest of the community that someone is taking care of the issue. If there is no response within 15 minutes after the community member presses the button (as some issues might need a bit of research for clarification) it can reset and open the question back up to the community. The time limit will also ensure that community members are not “hogging” the support by pressing the button on every new question to ensure they get the money for answering.

If, after 24 hours the question has not been answered, it could go to an official OpenCart team member to be resolved. There should also be a designated OpenCart employee responsible for archiving the answers and creating a well-organized FAQ in the community which will cut down on future support and provide customers with more information on how to fix their issue.

Live chat is great in concept, but requires someone be there around the clock as OC users are worldwide. Live chat also requires multiple people on at a time due to the likelihood of issues arising. If someone is paying extra for live support, they expect immediate support.
Daniel wrote:im already thinking of stetting up a reward points system where buyers can reward sellers for helping them.the reward points can help rank extensions positions.
The problem with a rewards system that ranks extension position by reward points is that it could encourage developers to intentionally not include an instruction manual or how to guides, therefore encouraging more questions from customers and accumulating reward points. I have been making tutorials on my blog addressing the most commonly asked questions customers have, and my extensions also feature tooltips addressing these common questions, as well as mini tutorials in the extension itself. I therefore wouldn’t receive any reward points due to the customer finding the answer themselves due to links to the blog in my extension, and I would argue this extra effort I am putting in should warrant a higher ranking in the extension store.

The extension store requires a complete overhaul. As developers, we do not have the power to control what goes on in the extension store; all we can do is continue to release great products, and bank on a customer finding our extension in the difficult to navigate marketplace. It is the OpenCart team’s responsibility to filter through the junk in the extension store, create a better search function, and offer better extension page layouts (500 x 500 pixels is not large enough to showcase an extension in screenshots).

In the “shipping” category alone, there are over 700 extensions available. Considering sorting by rating does not accurately sort the extensions, there is no easy way to find what a customer is looking for, or to feel confident they have chosen the best solution for their store. Another suggestion is to have a filter that lists trusted developers only, allowing customers to know that the extension is impeccably coded and they will receive support when needed.
Daniel wrote:its not so easy. my time is very limited and its very hard to find capable staff.
I would argue that you would have an easier time than most finding capable staff; you has a roster of developers you could pull from that are already extraordinarily well-versed in the system. A lot of us have a long, trusted history with OpenCart. The fact that we are able to develop extensions that follow OpenCart’s coding practice and have built successful brands using the system is better than any typical interview process one could ever hope for. Being so familiar with the system and having a clear passion for it (it is an amazing and powerful system), we are not only aware of its strengths and opportunities for improvement, but we also have the skill level to be able to improve it.
Last edited by OpenCart Addons on Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Image
Image Image Image Image Image

Canada's Leading Expert In OpenCart Development
& Official OpenCart Development Partner Image


User avatar

Posts

Joined
Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:51 am
Location - Canada

Post by Daniel » Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:19 pm

I would argue that you would have an easier time than most finding capable staff; you has a roster of developers you could pull from that are already extraordinarily well-versed in the system. A lot of us have a long, trusted history with OpenCart. The fact that we are able to develop extensions that follow OpenCart’s coding practice and have built successful brands using the system is better than any typical interview process one could ever hope for. Being so familiar with the system and having a clear passion for it (it is an amazing and powerful system), we are not only aware of its strengths and opportunities for improvement, but we also have the skill level to be able to improve it.
sure, but then i hire some one online and request work to be done.

I think it might be also where i live, back in the UK there are loads of hungry developers. you give them a project and if they don't know how to do something they research it. In Hong Kong they want you there all the time to teach them. Its not just me I know someone else who owns a web development company. The hong kong government complained about him hiring 10 staff from abroad. They told him that he needs to hire the from the local population, but he can not find anyone. if its not in the manual they don't know what to do. same with the airlines. 90% of hong kong pilots are from abroad or studied abroad. don't get me wrong my staff are great at answering support tickets but ask them to build a web site from scratch they can't do it. Nobody taught me HTML or PHP i taught myself. you just download a book and go through ever example until it makes sense. Trust me I have had many conversations with them about this.

OpenCart®
Project Owner & Developer.
OpenCart commercial support now available!


User avatar
Administrator

Posts

Joined
Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:57 pm

Post by Daniel » Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:23 pm

also the guys here who are long time extension developers. you can add me on skype just pm for the details.

OpenCart®
Project Owner & Developer.
OpenCart commercial support now available!


User avatar
Administrator

Posts

Joined
Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:57 pm

Post by budgetneon » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:54 pm

OpenCart Addons wrote:The extension store requires a complete overhaul....In the “shipping” category alone, there are over 700 extensions available. There is no need for this many. It causes confusion for customers, and considering sorting by rating does not accurately sort the extensions, there is no easy way to find what a customer is looking for...OpenCart should select the best extensions for each category, and cut the rest out. Another suggestion is to have a filter that lists trusted developers only, allowing customers to know that the extension is impeccably coded and they will receive support when needed.
I agree that this is a problem, but I don't think that trying to define who is "trusted" or "skilled" is going to work. It's too subjective, doesn't scale well, and likely culls out a lot of good extensions for no good reason.

Using myself as an example, we have a free page cache module out there that I would say is well coded, useful, and popular. However, since it's the only module I've uploaded, I would likely never make the list of "trusted developers". Thus, following that method, my extension would become effectively invisible to potential users.

In similar situations, the only solution I've seen that works is to raise a bar a little by requiring a payment to upload a module. That would, of course, also have downsides, especially for providers of free/unpaid modules. Personally, I'd be willing to pay something reasonable (< $20 USD), but many likely would not be.

Newbie

Posts

Joined
Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:32 pm


Post by JNeuhoff » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:27 pm

I think the only way forward is:
  • Better quality control of uploaded extensions, e.g. to make sure they stick to Opencart coding standards. Many web themes would fail right here to even meet the most basic Opencart standards.
  • A better one-click install AND uninstall feature. The uninstall needs to be able to remove all of the installed files of an extension. The install needs to automatically run the installer's OCmod/VQmod script and do the modifications refresh. Make less use of VQmod/OCmod scripts which are prone to clashes with each other. Use other technologies to modify Opencart core files, such as the new Events system.
  • Replace the Extensions > Modifications manager with an Extensions manager. The latter would list all 3rd party extensions by name, and each entry would have Edit and Install/Remove buttons. Most VQmod/OCmod scripts are usually part of an extension which may also include other PHP etc files.
  • Each extension needs to carry information about the supported OpenCart versions. If after an Opencart upgrade an extension isn't yet ready for the new Opencart version, it disables itself automatically, until the user removes and re-installs it with a newer version of the extension.
The basic idea is to give the end user more power to set things up himself, and to reduce the need for support requests.

MHC Web Design
Override Engine * Integrated VQMod * Multilingual SEO * Instant Option Price Calculator * TrustPilot Reviews * Download Options * Free Download Buttons * Export/Import Tool


User avatar
Newbie

Posts

Joined
Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:38 am


Post by Burt65 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:53 pm

I think we should concentrate on cleaning the online shop first.

So far these seem to be the most agreed...

1) Quality control for (extension/theme/mod)

2)Fixing the Sort order that currently does not work. *EDIT* (and search filter)

3)?

4)?

Please, let 'em keep coming...

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Newbie

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by OpenCart Addons » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:07 pm

budgetneon wrote:I agree that this is a problem, but I don't think that trying to define who is "trusted" or "skilled" is going to work. It's too subjective, doesn't scale well, and likely culls out a lot of good extensions for no good reason.
Good point.

Perhaps instead of a Trusted Developers filter, we could have a separate seal for extensions. For example "Certified By OpenCart". This would indicate that the extension has been tested for quality control by the OpenCart team so the customer knows they're getting a product that works.

This would tie in nicely with the idea of introducing a quality control system for the OpenCart extension store as anyone who wishes to receive this seal would have to update their extension. Developers who don't meet the standard or who have abandoned their products would not receive this seal and could eventually be removed.
Burt65 wrote:3) Fixing the Sort order that currently does not work
To expand on this. If you currently sort the extensions in descending order by Rating, the results you receive make no sense. The system only looks at the average rating of the extension and doesn't take into account the number of ratings. For example, an extension that has 1x 5-star rating may appear higher in the list than an extension with 77x 5-star ratings. I did some searching and found out that some sites such as IMDb use a method called Bayesian estimate.

4) Fix the search system. The extension name does not play any part in the search which I find very odd. I can search the exact name of a product yet it shows up 4th in the list. I would argue that the extension name should carry greater weight in the search than the tags.

5) Larger extension images. 500x500 is way too small and requires cutting up the admin interface into several images to make it legible.


Regards,
Joel.

Image
Image Image Image Image Image

Canada's Leading Expert In OpenCart Development
& Official OpenCart Development Partner Image


User avatar

Posts

Joined
Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:51 am
Location - Canada

Post by OSWorX » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:35 pm

As long as extensions like those 2 here http://forum.opencart.com/viewtopic.php ... 73#p608091
are accepted, the extension store is no trusted market!

Image


User avatar
Newbie

Posts

Joined
Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:52 pm
Location - Austria

Post by Burt65 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:55 pm

OSWorX wrote:As long as extensions like those 2 here http://forum.opencart.com/viewtopic.php ... 73#p608091
are accepted, the extension store is no trusted market!
This has already been taking care in point 1. Do you have any suggestions regarding the extension store? I'm sure you have some ideas...

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Newbie

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by OSWorX » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:03 pm

Had many, suggested them long before you jumped on board - and nothing really happened.

Image


User avatar
Newbie

Posts

Joined
Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:52 pm
Location - Austria

Post by burrito » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:05 pm

Perhaps a first step could be to implement some sort of additional check for "partners" and have those that pass be marked as "trusted".
This could be to submit some modules and check the coding, I understand this would take time to check, but anything to implement a check or quality control will do so.

What about implementing something like a check for paid extensions only, could be with a small survey that explains to the OC crew what the module does and how. The check could be the survey only initially and spot-checks of the modules to see if the filled out data is correct. If it's intentionally misrepresenting the module, remove it and ban the user. (it's extreme, I know, but it's a good way to enforce the honesty).

This could tie in with the trusted partners I mentioned above, they would lessen the load for checking modules, as you can assume they will be correct (I wouldn't give anyone a complete free pass but they would require less checks)

I agree on the aforementioned uninstall feature, not only for files, also database changes, should be relatively straightforward for the database part; in modifications table add a 'uninstall' column and for ocmod zip filed, besides the install.sql also add uninstall.sql, save the sql statement and run it when uninstall is wanted. For the files I'm sure something similar can be done. However, this is a useability function, not a quality one.
also the guys here who are long time extension developers. you can add me on skype just pm for the details.
what would you say makes you a long time extension developer? I have 6+ years experience and have done a lot of custom opencart work (I already have you on skype btw, but I'm not sure if you know who I am (not that you needed to))

Image
Opencart specialist | Our website | Our modules


User avatar
Newbie

Posts

Joined
Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:10 pm
Location - Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Post by Burt65 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:15 pm

OSWorX wrote:Had many, suggested them long before you jumped on board - and nothing really happened.
I know, I have been around a bit longer than you probably think, but I'm really trying hard here to make a difference and this is not really helping anyone. What have you got to lose to try once more.. ;) Help us to fix the shop...
We all already know that there are bad extension, but I would like to hear positive, constructive ideas that we can put together, so to have a sort of plan, a strategy if you like..

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Newbie

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by Daniel » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:43 am

ok how about this!

I sent up a system so after i buyer buys an extension and 10 days later he is sent an email requesting to rate the extension based on:

1. how useful was the extension to your site
2. how easy was it to install the install
3. was the developer helpful

rate each one between 1 - 10

then the extensions can be rated based on the mean score?

OpenCart®
Project Owner & Developer.
OpenCart commercial support now available!


User avatar
Administrator

Posts

Joined
Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:57 pm

Post by OpenCart Addons » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:55 am

Daniel wrote:ok how about this!

I sent up a system so after i buyer buys an extension and 10 days later he is sent an email requesting to rate the extension based on:

1. how useful was the extension to your site
2. how easy was it to install the install
3. was the developer helpful

rate each one between 1 - 10

then the extensions can be rated based on the mean score?
I definitely like the idea of the followup email.

I had suggested a while back to modify order notification emails to have the reply-to set to the customer's email, this way we could setup an auto-responder. Basically I wanted to setup an auto-reply to explain to customer how to get in touch with me should they have any questions during the installation or setup of the extension. Perhaps this could still be implemented?

While changing the rating system would add more flexibility, I think there should still be focus on fixing the current sort by rating on the extension store, otherwise the underlying issue is still there.


Regards,
Joel.

Image
Image Image Image Image Image

Canada's Leading Expert In OpenCart Development
& Official OpenCart Development Partner Image


User avatar

Posts

Joined
Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:51 am
Location - Canada

Post by burrito » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:51 pm

Daniel wrote:ok how about this!

I sent up a system so after i buyer buys an extension and 10 days later he is sent an email requesting to rate the extension based on:

1. how useful was the extension to your site
2. how easy was it to install the install
3. was the developer helpful

rate each one between 1 - 10

then the extensions can be rated based on the mean score?
that's a pretty good idea,
you could even show an avarage of each rating category for the developer (average of all his/her modules)

another issue I'm seeing with the rating system is that there are clueless users and vendictive users as well. I have had in the past where I've sold an extension which works fine, but the user had so many other modules that one of the other ones actually removed part of my code, so mine wouldn't work. I had spent quite some time figuring out what was happening and had informed the user of the findings. He then said my extension was bad and wanted me to fix it... as I explained that I couldn't fix my extension but had to work on the other extension, it wasn't included in the free support he rated the extension at 1 star and got a refund.

It's fine that he thinks that way, but it would be good if a developer has the option to add an explanation to a (negative) rating.

Image
Opencart specialist | Our website | Our modules


User avatar
Newbie

Posts

Joined
Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:10 pm
Location - Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Post by Daniel » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:55 pm

[background=][/background]
OpenCart Addons wrote:
Daniel wrote: I had suggested a while back to modify order notification emails to have the reply-to set to the customer's email, this way we could setup an auto-responder. Basically I wanted to setup an auto-reply to explain to customer how to get in touch with me should they have any questions during the installation or setup of the extension. Perhaps this could still be implemented?
do you know i already added an api to the opencart.com account section? shoudl contain the bueyrs email

OpenCart®
Project Owner & Developer.
OpenCart commercial support now available!


User avatar
Administrator

Posts

Joined
Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:57 pm
Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests